First impresion of large diaphram mic

  • Thread starter Thread starter GT
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GT

GT

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I am a firm believer in first impresion of sound.

For those of you who went to large diaphram mics, what hit you first, and was it good?

I have been trying to get a good recorded sound out of my acoustic, with AKG dynamics, and was wondering what I might be missing.
 
Well, for one thing...

... most acoustic guitars are mic'd with small-diaphragm condensers, not large - that MAY be part of your "missing link".

Bruce
Blue Bear Sound
 
I went from a Shure SM57 to a Rode NT1, and nearly fell off the chair first time I listened. All that detail! Yes!

I know 57s are industry standards for guitar cabs and snare and such, so I know they're good, but for things like miking acoustic guitar, I've been trashing them ever since that day. Ditto 58 for vocals. I know, I know, others get good results... However, I've switched from the NT1 on my acoustic to the AKG C1000 because the small diaphragm mic picks up less bottom end I think, or at least sounds less boomy.

Now I'm looking for a great small-diaphragm mic for the same purpose. LI Slim suggested the AT 4047, and so far, that seems a really good option. They're flogging them at 8th Street for $499 with a set of cans tossed in. Can this be real? What's quality control like on Audio Technica mics? Occasionally dodgy Chinese capsules? Why so cheap at 8th Street? Am I being unnaturally suspicious? Uh... sorry about the slight digression from the thread... we're still talking diaphragms and mics for acoustic guitars, though...
 
Dobro,

Would I be correct in assuming that with a large diaphram mic, that you have to back it off quite a bit? Which also means that room acoustics play a bigger part in the sound.

Bruce,

What small diaphram condenser would you recomend for acoustic? And do you still end up having to EQ? My AKGs are a bit midrangy (1k), no matter how close I mic, I would guesse that's tipical for a dynamic.

GT
 
I use AT4051s and they are quite nice.... you shouldn't need to EQ at all if you've got the placement correct!

I'm not surprised if you are boosting highs when trying to record an acoustic with a dynamic mic - getting that "shimmer" is impossible without a mic that can give you that top end sparkle.

Bruce
 
Thanks Bruce,

I usually attenuate at 1k insteat of boosting the highs, for my AKG d-190Es. I also record in stereo, close spaced micking.

Do you use one or two mics on an acoustic? Maybe I will only have to buy one good condenser mic?

GT
 
Also, you might look into the Marshall 603, they've been getting great reviews in rec.audio.pro...and they're supposedly only $99! Here's what Harvey Gerst ( http://www.itrstudio.com/ ) said about them:

Marshall MXL-603 $99  This was a flat-out winner, folks.  Almost identical to the MC012 in sound, with a wide cardioid pattern, almost approaching omni.  We used them as drum overhead mics, and they did a great job.  The diaphragms are easy to bottom out on voice, but with a pop filter (and positioned above the singer's mouth), they wouldn't be bad as a vocal mic on some singers, and they'd probably do fine on acoustic guitar, and many other instruments.  They were also a perfect match to the Oktava MC012 - they sounded nearly identical.

That's what i'm looking at as soon as i get some money :)
 
typo?

Dobro, just to be clear, the AT 4047 is a large diaphram mic. And that's the right price: I paid I think $20 less than that at B&H (I think the "list" is $699).

GT, I've had pretty good success with my (nylong string) acoustic positioning the AT4047 about 6 inches away. Room acoustics do seem to play a part. I'm in a fairly large room with a lot of wood -- from my limited experience, I don't think you need a dead room for recording acoustic guitar; I think the room ambience can add to it.

I'm recording stuff where the guitar is the only or primary instrument, so I want as full a sound as possible, and as much low end as can be available. I've recorded at a studio using a nice small condensor and the result was a little crisper but not as full. If I was recording with a bass player and drummer I think the small might be better.
 
For what it's worth...

GT - I close-mic everything because I track guitar and voice at the same time, and the only way I can get decent separation for mixing is to record with the vocal mic up my nose and the guitar mic on the 12th fret looking like it's about to become a slide.

LI Slim - no typo, just me being brainless. I just assumed because the 4047 sounded so good on your guitar on that mp3 clip you linked to, that it was a small condensor. Now, I'm even more impressed. Are you eqing it at any point?
 
Dobro, I had to force myself to track everything separately but I'm really glad that I have. It's freeing.

The starting point for my eq suggestions is that book that's highly recommended here, "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording." Of course you have to play around with it. I'm boosting somewhere between 300-400 Hz about 1 octave (adds bass and body without the mud); boosting around 2-3kHz to accentuate the percussive sound of the fingernail hitting the string (this is subtle); boosting over 11kHz to add brightness (this is really really subtle). I follow Sonusman's advice that any boost over 6 is a bad idea using software effects; I'm usually between 3 and 6. I also use a little compression, maybe 3:1 beginning at -6.
 
Dobro,

Paul Simon used to like to play and sing at the same time. He said that you get a certain interaction, that you don't get tracking guitar and voice seperately. I aggree. I also think it helps take your mind off your guitar playing, so you don't think to much.

I also aggree with close micking, mics don't seem to like room acoustics.
 
LI Slim - up until now, the only eqing I've done is to cut lows to get rid of the boominess. Thanks for the ideas about judicious boosts in the mids and highs - that sound on your mp3 is nice, so you're doing something right. :)

GT - you said: "I usually attenuate at 1k insteat of boosting the highs, for my AKG d-190Es. I also record in stereo, close spaced micking."

How close do you mic, and what configuration? Do you sing at the same time, and if so, does the stereo miking pick up your voice with a slight phase effect if you don't keep your head pointed in the same direction all the time?
 
Dobro,

The last song I put in the clinic "Broken Man", I played the acoustic and sang at the same time. I used two mics panned dead left and right (stereo). I use one of those two mics on one stand adapters, and toe the mics in, they are about 2" appart.

I placed them centered between my head and the sound hole. I think it was more of a compromise for the sound of the guitar, than the sound of my voice. I don't like to close mic my voice anyway, seems to make it sound too removed from the mix, if you know what I mean. Plus that proximity effect, not good for voice. This part of the song was truly binauaral.

What's weird is, I can fingerpick my acoustic and sing at the same time, but I can't play bass and sing at the same time.
 
GT - thanks, that was useful - brought me back to somewhere I used to be, with an interesting difference. I'll listen to the song, btw.

Sing and play bass - you just have to learn how to do it. :D
 
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