First go with our new mic - please comment

Garry Sharp

Garry Sharp

Lost Cause
Got a new Neumann TLM193 - the wife is very pleased with it on her voice (so am I :D) Shortcomings in this will be my fault, not hers or the mic ;)

That apart, I'd be very grateful for comments on any aspect of this - it is a pop/soft rock kind of thing, we were trying to make a driving song. Be as harsh as you like, except that I played all the guitar parts and I'm actually a bass player :eek:

Song is called Loving On The Edge, it is the first one here:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=4395&alid=-1

Thanks in advance

Garry
 
The vocal sound is very clear and bright. Overall the recording is clean, and the mix is well balanced. The playing is a bit rough in spots, and not as rhythmically tight as I'd like it to be -- in particular the timing on the drums falls apart at several points in the song. I think the drummer may be overplaying. I am not thrilled with this combination of song and vocalist. Her voice seems way too "sweet" for such a "driving" song. The edit at the beginning of the coda is a little rough.

Hope this helps,
Don
 
Thanks Don, that does help. I can sort the drums out, and the coda edit. Got too close to this one and stopped hearing things. The matching of this vocal style was an attempt to sound different; either different people will have different views or it just doesn't work! ;)

Thanks again.
 
I like the song and the overall mix. :) The performance has an engaging feel to it. Drums and gtr are well played. Their occasional rhythmic looseness doesn't get in the way of the feel of the song, and their sound quality is really good. Bass maybe needs a little EQ cut in the low mids. She’s a very good singer and the vocal performance is excellent.

So I hate to say it, new mic and all, but I’m hearing the mic’s capture of the vocal sonority as the weak link in the mix. The singer has a breathy quality as well as sweetness, but the breathiness is coming across with an edgy upper midrange quality. Stands out to me most during the ending phrase where there’s only gtr and voice. Maybe it’s just a mic position or room issue, but it’d be nice to hear the voice with a smoother capture.

Tim
 
I agree with what Timothy said. The breathy quality seems to stand out quite a bit. Some of that can be nice, but too much can distract. I wonder if the effects have anything to do with that? Otherwise, I thought it sounded great!
 
Thanks Tim and Rick. This feedback is much appreciated. I can use some level automation to reduce the breaths between phrases, although it sounds wierd if you chop the part up to remove them completely.

Robbie has had many formal lessons and reducing breathiness in her actual singing voice has been a part of them - I have been trying to encourage her to be less "formal" in her singing and this may be a consequence. We are just talking about it!! :)
 
Gary, what I had meant by "breathy quality" wasn't the sound of breathing between vocal phrases, but the sound of the voice itself while singing. I think I worded it in a confusing way.

Tim
 
Timothy Lawler said:
Gary, what I had meant by "breathy quality" wasn't the sound of breathing between vocal phrases, but the sound of the voice itself while singing. I think I worded it in a confusing way.

Tim
Click to expand...

Yes, understood, not written in a confusing way - the second part of my reply addressed that. Robbie says it is called white breath, this is what her singing teacher was trying to reduce and which I seem to have brought back - does the phrase white breath ring a bell (it was all new to me)?
 
Garry Sharp said:
Got a new Neumann TLM193 - the wife is very pleased with it on her voice (so am I :D) Shortcomings in this will be my fault, not hers or the mic ;)

That apart, I'd be very grateful for comments on any aspect of this - it is a pop/soft rock kind of thing, we were trying to make a driving song. Be as harsh as you like, except that I played all the guitar parts and I'm actually a bass player :eek:

Song is called Loving On The Edge, it is the first one here:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=4395&alid=-1

Thanks in advance

Garry
Click to expand...
I liked the tune, and thought you captured it well. I'm not sure the vocals fit this song. They are pretty tame, and this song could use some slightly more aggressive vocals. Maybe she could emphasize more, be a bit more aggressive. She just seems a bit reserved, and the music doesn't seem to require that. I don't get the feeling that she is using her range all that much. I'd like to hear her do a bit rougher vocal track to this particular song. Hope this is the type of feedback you were looking for. I can't sing a bit, so my critique is from a listeners standpoint......and is just what I might like to hear in this song.
Ed
 
Garry Sharp said:
Yes, understood, not written in a confusing way - the second part of my reply addressed that. Robbie says it is called white breath, this is what her singing teacher was trying to reduce and which I seem to have brought back - does the phrase white breath ring a bell (it was all new to me)?
Click to expand...

heh-heh, I didn't even read the 2nd paragraph before responding. :o "White breath" is very descriptive of the sound... haven't heard the term before. I kind of like that sound in a vocal. It's just the way the mic is picking it up here. Breathiness is also nice in sax playing... Stan Getz' playing in his Jobim/Gilberto collab recordings come to mind.

Despite my "edgy-breathy" comment I don't see the song as a mismatch with the singer. If that edgy quality wasn't there I think the song would work without the voice necessarily being more aggressive. In fact, I think it sounds out of character for her voice in the couple of spots where she growls a little on a syllable for emphasis.

Tim
 
I like this thread :)

Dogman - thanks for listening, I hear what you say. I've been interested for a long time in the idea of mixing an "angelic" voice with a driving guitar track. It might be that you - and Don - are right, and it just doesn't work, or it might be that my limited skills are not up to it. This is not our mainstream sound - there is another track called Strange Kind of Paradise on the nowhere site which is really where we are, I just wanted to experiment.

Tim - yes, our "vocal booth" is Robbie on the landing with a duvet hanging behind her. I have just explained to her that it was my production and not her singing that you were critiquing. I have to say I do like her little growls though :) (PS - your Cavatina is gorgeous)
 
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Sorry if this seems like a bump, but I took the track to a mastering house today, if anybody's interested the mastered track has replaced the previous one on the Nowhere site. I think the main result has been to highlight shortcomings in the original recording...but hey, we're all learning ;)
 
Bump away......You aint gonna learn much if no one listens...... :D

I llistened to the 2 versions, back to back. The mastered version is much fuller. I don't know if it's just my system, but the vocals seem to fit the song better this way. They don't seem as tame in the mix. It seemed to add some emotion to them. Made them sit a bit better in the mix. It might just be they are louder, so certain frequencies stand out better. I don't know, but I like this version better.
Ed
 
That doesnt sound like a TLM193 to me on a female vocal. Im actually very surprised by it. Is that dry with no EQ? It just seems why brighter than what i would have imagined. Unless she really has a very bright voice. Id consider the TLM193 one of the darker of the large diaphragm mics that i have.

Although on female vocals with it i generally like a little cut at around 5k with this mic. That seems to be the one spot on this mic that can get a little displeasing on my ears. But it usually is just a -2DB cut there. Try it out and see what yah think.

Maybe your preamp changes the sound of it that much more compared to mine i dont know.

Danny
 
A very poppy and happy sounding tune. I especially like the lead guitar work. Really dig that solo! The recording sounds good too. Especially when it's just her at the end you can tell how clear the vocal recording... I admit the vocals were a little quick and overwheliming when they first started, but they definitely grew on me as the song went on. Maybe if you kept the into quick then slowed down the beginning of the first verse, then got it going real quick like you have it... just a thought. or if you started her like you did after the solo... just another idea. & if it means anything it sounds roughly 15 times better than any female vocales I've tried to record. Peace!
 
Very sweet and bright vocals - breathy in the delivery, very pretty indeed. The guitars and bass are great in the style of the Pixies. The solo is a bit long, but at 2:04 you play a beautiful little melody that could be the basis for your whole solo... just play that several times - it's sweet. The drums aren't happening, and are adding an uneasiness and tension to the song. Tambourine would sound great on this track. I like it.

-Casey
 
Wow - thanks guys :)

Danny - yes, she has a very bright voice. She has had a lot of formal training in an era where the ability to project was important (think opera singer, though she's not) and hence a lot comes off her hard palate. I can raise the mic above her mouth to get more soft palate, but that tends to sound slightly nasally. The 193 is the only mic I have found to tame her!

Snakedog, yes, good point about the intro. We were going for maximum impact, but your idea is how we used to do it live, perhaps we should have stuck to that.

Casey - I was a bit surprised myself by the guitar solo - I consider myself to be a bass player! I know my scales pretty well though and it is a "scaley" solo! And drums are my bete noire, I can never get them right. This track was using a MIDI track made by Groove Agent 2 to trigger Drumkit From Hell samples. I think I had the "humanise" button turned up too far on Groove Agent.

Thanks again for listening and commenting. This track is done now (I am sick to death of it!) but this is all helpful for the future.

Garry
 
It sounds pretty good its just not what i normally hear from the 193. I mainly wanted to bring it up just because i didnt want people to get the impression that it was the mic that was making the bright. Of course the mic sounds great but it really is a dark mic so dont expect to put it on anyones voice to make it sound like that. Sounds like a really good match for your wife though. Try out the little cut at 5Khz. It really seems to take some stress off the signal even though its such a minor cut.

Danny
 
Danny - yeah, the Response chart for the 193 is almost completely flat - a slight dip after 2kHz, which is deepest at 2dB at 5kHz, and then rises to a little 1dB boost at around 15kHz. I guess your cut would accentuate that shape, I will try it. The mastering guy did open up the high end quite a bit.

Dogman - sorry didn't respond to your last - glad you think it's improved, the other thing is I took a second mix to the mastering place which had vox dropped a dB or two, that's the one I used in the end and I think that helped.
 
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