first gig soon!

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any of them that I've played with sound systems do.
That's usually the 2nd thing they look at after the drums.

9 times out of 10 I'd wager they put the fader on zero once they figure out you don't need to mic a bass amp. ;)

Obviously a big room has some demands that yer average stage rig can't meet. Playing the smaller rooms, 50-100 cap., we stopped bothering with a direct bass feed or mic. 200 watts of omni-directional whump was quite capable thank you.


lou
 
You know, having said that, if you're playing truly melodic stuff - Geddy Lee comes to mind - a direct out is what you want. You'll need a long lead or a wireless rig to step out to the FOH spot and get the tone where you want it but that's just the board tone stack. Let the sound guy set volume once the set starts. Get yer stage tone and level where you want it first of course then walk out and nag the guy on tone only.

Good luck.


lou
 
9 times out of 10 I'd wager they put the fader on zero once they figure out you don't need to mic a bass amp. ;)

Obviously a big room has some demands that yer average stage rig can't meet. Playing the smaller rooms, 50-100 cap., we stopped bothering with a direct bass feed or mic. 200 watts of omni-directional whump was quite capable thank you.


lou
well, there's definitely truth in that; but the problem can be that if you're mic'ing the guitars and drums, that means they have to hold their volumes down and if the bass is playing to handle the room, then it's too loud on stage.

If the band's on the same page about it, like yours was or is, then you're absolutely right. A decent bass rig will easily handle those sized venues.
 
You know, having said that, if you're playing truly melodic stuff - Geddy Lee comes to mind - a direct out is what you want. You'll need a long lead or a wireless rig to step out to the FOH spot and get the tone where you want it but that's just the board tone stack. Let the sound guy set volume once the set starts. Get yer stage tone and level where you want it first of course then walk out and nag the guy on tone only.

Good luck.


lou



hmm, i do have a sansamp bass driver DI, but for the life of me, i can't really get the tone i want out of it. do you mean, play through an unmic'ed cab to get some nice oomf behind me, but at the same time send the direct out to the board?
 
hey Ive been the club sound guy for 30,000 watts, and I definitely gave an ear to everyone in the band, including telling the gtarist to turn his double stack down unless he wants a crap mix and feeding back vocals trying to compete for stage vol. Kind of a rampant cynical generalization that the soundguy is going to suck, as some above posters have warned about. Just as likely your drummer or singer or guitarist might suck too for all I know.

To the OP... dont worry, if the sound man is decent (and some of them are, more than bands give credit for, especially because the bands are dumbasses who do what they are told not to and blame the soundman when they sound like shit) the levels are in control. chances are you are DIed through the mains so if bass is called for bass can be heard.

It is tempting to doubt your stage volume and want to turn up, but you are not hearing the same thing as the people in front of the house speakers are hearing. Turning up and down mid-set just makes your soundguy have to adjust, and past a certain point you can't compensate for something too loud on stage but they always have more room to turn up the quiet ones.
 
hmm, i do have a sansamp bass driver DI, but for the life of me, i can't really get the tone i want out of it. do you mean, play through an unmic'ed cab to get some nice oomf behind me, but at the same time send the direct out to the board?

Yes. You are in charge of tone. Send good signal to FOH and let sound guy mix. You need an amp with a direct out so FOH gets the correct signal, pedals and all.

lou
 
Yes. You are in charge of tone. Send good signal to FOH and let sound guy mix. You need an amp with a direct out so FOH gets the correct signal, pedals and all.

lou

Lou is saying you should use the line out of the AMP preferably because it will have all the tone tweaks you do and whatever pedals are in line.
 
interesting. my head has an XLR out; since i'm not using hte BDDI live, then i wouldn't need it. direct out from the amp doesn't sound TOO bad...sometimes when i record i mix that with a mic'ed cab to get the highs in there...but sometimes it can have TOO much of a high freq, as my huge cab has no horns so its all woofers
 
Around here, DI out from the bass-head is the usual MO, if available. Unless playing totally without PA, or only vox and kicks or something..
Usually the soundmen are fucking terrible.
Usually the stage is booming so much (hollow stage, subwoofers under it..etc) that you simply can't crank the bass on stage.
Usually the monitors are f***ing milk-cartons and underpowered, so you can only hear pick-attack or klank if you're slapping.
And believe me, the local sounguy knows every excuse why you can't hear yourself... Or the drums.

-Haul your own monitor or in-ears, and a small mixer and a few mics. Mic what you need to hear yourself in your monitor/in-ear and cut the soundguy out.
-Get a wireless, and during soundcheck go to the room and listen how you sound--->correct the soundguy. As a last resort, put a Zoom H4 or equivalent to proximity of mixer and tell him you're gonna record that shit.

You might have it better at your part of the world. :D
 
In the best of all possible worlds, the club's sound guy would do nothing more than adjust the stage mics to provide an appropriate volume and use his/her standardized EQ settings to compensate for the "room oddities".

Too bad that so many bands don't really know how to "balance" themselves and use reasonable stage volumes.

Since you guys haven't played out much, and since I'm assuming you don't have a "club sized" practice space, do this...

Arrange to borrow or rent a space at least as large as a very small club and a small, basic PA system. Often schools and churches have "activity" rooms you can rent for an afternoon at little or no cost, but even something like part of a warehouse will do. Don't worry too much about the acoustics of the space.

Use the PA system only to provide vocal mics.

Have the drummer play at his/her normal volume. Then you and the guitarist need to adjust your amps so you blend properly with the drummer. Not too soft...not too loud. And remember, back in the day, this was done with 40-watt Fender Bassman and Super Reverb amps. If you or your guitarist need to drive your amps hard to get a certain tone that's okay, but only use the volume that is absolutely necessary to get that tone. Start with the volume down low, then turn up only as necessary.

Then, you and the guitarist need to get down on your knees so your ears are at speaker level, and adjust your tone to exactly how you want it. Don't worry about how your tone sounds in the room, you're only interested in how it sounds coming out of the amp speakers!

Run through a few songs and make sure you have both your volumes and tone settings they way you want them. Again, ignore the "room" sound; only listen to the sound coming out of your amp's speakers. Don't worry too much about the vocal levels; the vocal mikes are there just for "comfort".

Then, you and your guitarist should write down every single setting on your amps! These will be the settings you will use at your gig.

Then consider exactly how many and how large the amps you will need for the gig really need to be. A wall of Marshall cabs can be really impressive looking, but do you really need all of them? It's okay to have enough gear on the stage to provide the desired visual, but they don't all have to be plugged in! A minimalist approach will speed up your setup and tear down, effectively give you a larger stage to move around on, and save your back a lot of grief.

On gig night, set the controls on your amps to exactly what you wrote down during the "dry run", and leave them the fuck alone after that! Do not tweak or touch anything! Don't worry about what it sounds like on stage!

You'll be giving the sound guy a sound that is easier for him to work with. And since he's not having to fix a crappy sound setup by the band, deal with people turning their amps up and down, and crap such as that, he'll be able to focus on giving your band a good sound in the club.

Give the sound guy something good to work with, make his job easier, and you'll end up sounding good. And in addition to introducing yourself to him before the gig, make sure you thank him and maybe buy him a beer after you finish your set...
 
awesome! great advice guys!

only problem: although we have a PA head, we don't have PA speakers. damnit. haha

the tiny ass room we practice in DOES suck, and it's a mess of noise since it's so small. however, next week we're going to play in my basement, which is very large, with my 4x15 to try her out. my guitarists amp is only a Vox 2x12, but it's one of those combo tube/solid state guys with the effects, and it's got to be around 120 watts. it's VERY loud, so he definitely isn't going to need to use my JCM2000 stack!

so hopefully we'll tune our settings right. my basement isn't HUGE, like one of those rooms, but it's a lot more open air to get our tones down i believe. it's hard as shit practicing vocals with no speakers, but a PA head. we tried hooking it to a little amp, but since that room is so small, t he feedback is horrendous and you can't hear anything.
 
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