Finishing quilted maple

[muttley600]

Alcohol looks better because it penetrates deaper, but it is a real pain in the ass to work with. The water based is easier to work with, but it raises the grain too much for me.

Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

How are those LMI anilines? Colour fast or fade? I use a supplier here that produces aniline dyes that don't fade as much as some. I've had some severe problems in the past with alcohol dyes fading. Not as much a problem with water based but I don't like water based dyes for the same reason.

 

[muttley600]

What if I wasn't planning on spraying? Can the same thing be accomplished with a brush--assuming of course that it's slower and involves more sanding?

Yes, the only thing I'd add to the process would be to carefully and lightly brushing or rub a shellac (french polish) sealer on once you've got your colour built up. That will help stop moving the colour about. Some of the solvents in modern lacquers will attack the colour coat and make it patchy.

The trick with brushing lacquer is to use good fine brushes, you'll want a 1/2" and 1". Keep the lacquer fresh and work methodically. You'll get a feel for how much or little you can brush on without runs or sags. Don't go over runs, cut back flat after three or four coats. Watch going into the colour coat thats what happens most often to novice. For the final coat. Cut right back and flat the whole thing with 600 grit. If you can flat out perfectly build up some more. Once you have it perfectly flat. Remove all dust from your work area and very carefully add the final coat. You may find some millage in using fish eye and flow out additives. Test them out on scrap.

 

[WhiteStrat]

Thanks for all the help guys. I've got a bunch of scrap maple on the way (had to buy it separately since I didn't make the guitar body!) and I'm headed to Woodcraft to get some dyes & finishes and I'll start experimenting this weekend.

 

[true-eurt]

This is a mighty fine project you've chosen Strat! Looking forward to each step you take to get to the finished masterpiece!! That's an awesome color too!! I love ambers.

 

[Light]

How are those LMI anilines? Colour fast or fade?

I've been pretty happy with them. They seem to be quite color fast, but I've only been using them for a few years.

Yes, the only thing I'd add to the process would be to carefully and lightly brushing or rub a shellac (french polish) sealer on once you've got your colour built up. That will help stop moving the colour about. Some of the solvents in modern lacquers will attack the colour coat and make it patchy.

The trick with brushing lacquer is to use good fine brushes, you'll want a 1/2" and 1". Keep the lacquer fresh and work methodically. You'll get a feel for how much or little you can brush on without runs or sags. Don't go over runs, cut back flat after three or four coats. Watch going into the colour coat thats what happens most often to novice. For the final coat. Cut right back and flat the whole thing with 600 grit. If you can flat out perfectly build up some more. Once you have it perfectly flat. Remove all dust from your work area and very carefully add the final coat. You may find some millage in using fish eye and flow out additives. Test them out on scrap.

Except if you use an alcohol based dye, an alcohol based shellac could cause the color to run. Not a problem if you spray the shellac, but it could be if you pad it or brush it. Also, if you are going to brush lacquer, make sure the add some retarder - butylcelosolve is the stuff - to slow the drying, which gives it more time to flow out.

If you are going to use water based dye, I'd use Stew-Mac's Color-Tone dyes. For clear, like I've said many times before, LMI's KTM9 is widely regarded as an excellent finish, and is very easy to apply by just about any method you want to use. You will want to read up on the application, but I've seen plenty of people get very good results.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[WhiteStrat]

So I've read up on the KTM9--and I like what I've learned. So right now I'm looking at Stew-Mac's color tone amber with the KTM9 for clear coat on the maple top. LMI claims the KTM9 is also sealer. Would you agree, or should I still use a shellac after the color?

And I'm a bit confused on pore filler. The mahogany back & sides will definitely need some, but I also want to color the mohagony--just to make it dark and even. Since the pore filler is a (mostly) clear epoxy, the color has to go on first right? So for the sides and back, I'm looking at color > pore filler > KTM9.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[muttley600]

You needn't worry about a specific sealer for the maple. You'll get a good build no problem. The Mahogany will depend on the open grain and porosity. You can use any lacquer as a sealer in any case so you'll be good. Generally a sealer is the same lacquer with a higher solids content. So in short you may just have to build more coats to get to the flat finish sanding back in the early stages.

The Mahogany will darken with time so be careful about going to heavy with any tint you use. Also whatever filler you use always go darker than the wood by a good few shades, especially mahogany which will get darker in any case. Nothing looks worse than a light colour filler.

As for the shellac or not. Test on scrap. Did I mention that. Seriously thats exactly why you do it. Mistakes in the finishing process can be costly, time consuming, and very disheartening. Get to work on those test pieces and keep records of exactly what you do to each one so you can do it again on the work piece.

Any further questions fie away.

Edit. sorry just re read your post and re the clear epoxy filler thats a tough one. Your going to have to sand it right back a few time so colouring first is OK but your going to have to colour again after as well. You can try three ways. Colour first and fill then re colour after sanding, Fill and colour after, or you can colour the epoxy with a small amount of the stain. The stain will not take to the epoxy very well so when you cut it back you will need to remove every trace from the surface. Test all three on scrap and see which works best for you. Personally I'd just fill and let the mahogany tone down on it's own. When I have to colour down mahogany in a situation like that I usually airbrush a tint coat or two. Even that is not ideal.

 

[Light]

I'd skip the epoxy filler (it's a nightmare), and use their Mahogany paste filler (or the rosewood, whichever color you prefer). However, after that you will NEED to do a shellac seller coat before you go with the KTM-9. At least, I'm pretty sure you will, because I don't think the KTM will stick well to the paste filler. The epoxy filler is just messy and unpleasant, and I'd rather avoid it if I can. By the way, if you DO use the epoxy filler, you can color it. There are epoxy tints on the market (I don't remember exactly what they are, but I looked into this a while back).

Come to think of it, the Past filler is pretty messy too, and my preference for it is probably more to do with familiarity than anything. I've filled a few with epoxy, though, and I hated it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[muttley600]

I'd skip the epoxy filler (it's a nightmare), and use their Mahogany paste filler (or the rosewood, whichever color you prefer). However, after that you will NEED to do a shellac seller coat before you go with the KTM-9. At least, I'm pretty sure you will, because I don't think the KTM will stick well to the paste filler. The epoxy filler is just messy and unpleasant, and I'd rather avoid it if I can. By the way, if you DO use the epoxy filler, you can color it. There are epoxy tints on the market (I don't remember exactly what they are, but I looked into this a while back).

Come to think of it, the Past filler is pretty messy too, and my preference for it is probably more to do with familiarity than anything. I've filled a few with epoxy, though, and I hated it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Yeh, I'd agree with all of that. I don't like most paste fillers either, most I've tried shrink more than epoxy meaning two sometimes three fill and sand stages. Three times average mess vs one time epoxy goo? It's a bit of a crapshoot for me.

Of all the epoxies I've tried the Devcon clear slow set seems to give the cleanest and least sticky clean up. You can also colour it with anelines.

I use it to fill burr and burls when you have a LOT of gaps and holes.