Finding the "sweet spot" for micing technique?

[elenore19]

So my friend said that this works great...I haven't had a chance to try it yet...

How I understood it was you take the cable that is plugged into your amp and hold down the tip (the one that usually is in the guitar) and move it around the speaker, and where there is the least amount of hum is where to mike it.

Anyone else try this? Or hear of it?

I'm just curious. I'll definitely try it next time I lay down guitar tracks.

-Elliot

 

[WhiteStrat]

So my friend said that this works great...I haven't had a chance to try it yet...

How I understood it was you take the cable that is plugged into your amp and hold down the tip (the one that usually is in the guitar) and move it around the speaker, and where there is the least amount of hum is where to mike it.

Anyone else try this? Or hear of it?

I'm just curious. I'll definitely try it next time I lay down guitar tracks.

-Elliot

Assuming the hum does indeed vary, it could only be because of a difference in some level of electrical interference. I can't imagine how that would translate at all to a "sweet spot" for micing an amp. The sweet spot is a subjective thing--and the judge is your ear.

There is no formula. And there doesn't need to be. It's not that hard to find the old fashioned way!

 

[muttley600]

Is it April 1st already.

 

[elenore19]

Assuming the hum does indeed vary, it could only be because of a difference in some level of electrical interference. I can't imagine how that would translate at all to a "sweet spot" for micing an amp. The sweet spot is a subjective thing--and the judge is your ear.

There is no formula. And there doesn't need to be. It's not that hard to find the old fashioned way!

Yeah, I wasn't sure. I might have misunderstood what he was saying. I do that a lot.

Is it April 1st already.

No yet.

 

[muttley600]

It's April 1st here so you must just be getting me before it rolls round your side of the pond.

 

[tdukex]

So my friend said that this works great...I haven't had a chance to try it yet...

How I understood it was you take the cable that is plugged into your amp and hold down the tip (the one that usually is in the guitar) and move it around the speaker, and where there is the least amount of hum is where to mike it.

Anyone else try this? Or hear of it?

I'm just curious. I'll definitely try it next time I lay down guitar tracks.

-Elliot

I've heard something similar, but it went more like this:

"You take the mike that is plugged into your pre amp and hold the tip (in front of the guitar amp) and move it around the speaker, and where it sounds best is where to mike it."

 

[elenore19]

I've heard something similar, but it went more like this:

"You take the mike that is plugged into your pre amp and hold the tip (in front of the guitar amp) and move it around the speaker, and where it sounds best is where to mike it."

lol, nice.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

lol, nice.

Thing is, I've actually heard that proposed as a serious suggestion, and taken properly it isn't a bad one.

Take your amp, crank it WAY up so it's producing some hiss (disclaimer - this is intended for distorted guitar), then throw on a set of 'phones and start moving your mic around the front of the amp, listening to how the hiss gets picked up. Adjust your position until it sounds the most "musical" and then lock down your mic position, lower your amp down to your desired tracking volume, and check it out in the playback.

The idea is since a lot of home recording guys don't have an isolation room (and even then it's tough to do this with one unless you have an assistant), this allows you to get a sense for how the sound coming out of the amp is being picked up by the mic, without having noise bleed issues from the huge amounts of sound in the room, from the (very) loud amp. It's actually kind of an interesting idea, though in the interest of full disclosure I've never tried this myself.

 

[Tadpui]

I've done something similar to position multiple mics.

I turn my distortion, channel gain, compressor level and sustain all to max, turn off my noise suppressor, and it generates a big hiss. Then with headphones on, I can listen to the hiss through the microphone. It's great because headphones will block out most of that higher frequency noise so most of what you're hearing is coming from the mic and not leaking into your phones. Plus since I work alone I don't have a friend handy to play while I search for a sweet spot.

It also works great for positioning a 2nd mic. Put one mic in the mix and place it, then the other, then put them both in the mix and try to get a good phase relationship between them. Although I've yet to find a truly satisfactory placement for 2 mics. I just end up getting pretty close and align the tracks manually in my software.

 

[ermghoti]

I've seen reference to the technique as a way to eliminate phase cancellation on a two-mic set-up. Place mic one (usually close), get a sound. Place mic two (usually farther back) and get a sound. Flip the phase on one mic.

Remove guitar player from the building.

Plug in guitar, generate hum. Put on headphones, and diddle with the distance mic until the hum through the cans is eliminated, or nearly so. after unflipping the phase, you should have two mics cooperating pretty well.

 

[elenore19]

Thing is, I've actually heard that proposed as a serious suggestion, and taken properly it isn't a bad one.

Take your amp, crank it WAY up so it's producing some hiss (disclaimer - this is intended for distorted guitar), then throw on a set of 'phones and start moving your mic around the front of the amp, listening to how the hiss gets picked up. Adjust your position until it sounds the most "musical" and then lock down your mic position, lower your amp down to your desired tracking volume, and check it out in the playback.

The idea is since a lot of home recording guys don't have an isolation room (and even then it's tough to do this with one unless you have an assistant), this allows you to get a sense for how the sound coming out of the amp is being picked up by the mic, without having noise bleed issues from the huge amounts of sound in the room, from the (very) loud amp. It's actually kind of an interesting idea, though in the interest of full disclosure I've never tried this myself.

The reason I laughed was because I thought it was a ridiculously obvious suggestion. Makes sense. I've usually just stuck a mic in the spot where i know it sounds pretty good. I'll definitely mess around with all these suggestions.

 

[Wireneck]

Im with Ermghoti...that is the only way I have seen this "technique" referenced. Perhaps your buddy got the story mixed up?

 

[Roguetitan]

first of all in order to get to the sweet spot you will first have to rip the speaker cloth off the front first.

no kidding..... Really..... Im Serious, no april fools, really

 

[elenore19]

Update! The "real" technique!

Alright, so this is coming from a grammy award winning producer. (Bret Huus).

So you take the 1/4" cable and bend it right by the tip which will make your amp have a hum/hiss. (or something of the sort) then you put your ear to the amp and wherever you hear the least amount of hum/hiss is where you put the mic.


So there you have it.

 

[Sonixx]

I've seen reference to the technique as a way to eliminate phase cancellation on a two-mic set-up. Place mic one (usually close), get a sound. Place mic two (usually farther back) and get a sound. Flip the phase on one mic.

Remove guitar player from the building.

Plug in guitar, generate hum. Put on headphones, and diddle with the distance mic until the hum through the cans is eliminated, or nearly so. after unflipping the phase, you should have two mics cooperating pretty well.

sorry to be presumptuous, but I can only assume that you do not have first hand experience with this technique? if the goal is to mix two mics for a "better" tone, the method you suggest is problematic at best. you will be fighting comb filtering. every foot distance between mics on a common source is about 1ms delay so unless the mics are at significant distances relative to one another, you never escape comb filtering.

with the availability DAWs, coherent signal alignment is a trivial matter. the goal as I see it is not mic phase alignment pre tracking, but mic positioning for the best tone for each mic. the signals can managed post tracking in manners that are far superior to tracking when phase alignment is the goal.

I've posted on this several times and have what I consider a very robust way to manage this. I'll post again if any are interested.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

sorry to be presumptuous, but I can only assume that you do not have first hand experience with this technique? if the goal is to mix two mics for a "better" tone, the method you suggest is problematic at best. you will be fighting comb filtering. every foot distance between mics on a common source is about 1ms delay so unless the mics are at significant distances relative to one another, you never escape comb filtering.

with the availability DAWs, coherent signal alignment is a trivial matter. the goal as I see it is not mic phase alignment pre tracking, but mic positioning for the best tone for each mic. the signals can managed post tracking in manners that are far superior to tracking when phase alignment is the goal.

On one hand, engineers have been phase-aligning mics for generations and getting some great results in doing so, so I wouldn't necessarily knock the technique. Hundreds of thousands of hit records testify to the fact that it works, well.

On the other, that doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be improved upon - I've been on something of a recording freeze of late (WAY too busy at work, plus I'm down to about a gig of hard drive space), but I do want to do some more experimenting with multiple mics where I completely disregard phase alignment in tracking. It may very well give improved results, and provided you have the time you lose nothing by experimenting.

That said, there's one clear advantage to getting the phasing right while tracking (well, two, if you also include the fact that your guitar won't sound like ass during playback before you do any alignment) - it really forces you to consider the sound of both mics in the context of each other - as one sound, rather than two distinct ones. One of the truisms of recording heavy guitar is that sometimes two sounds that don't sound so hot on their own combine to something that taken together is pretty devastating. You can certainly track this way positioning each mic individually, but you're forced to do so if you're trying to get them phase aligned. Food for thought...

 

[Sonixx]

On one hand, engineers have been phase-aligning mics for generations and getting some great results in doing so, so I wouldn't necessarily knock the technique. Hundreds of thousands of hit records testify to the fact that it works, well.

setting a mic further back is not phase aligning. you've totally missed my point.

That said, there's one clear advantage to getting the phasing right while tracking (well, two, if you also include the fact that your guitar won't sound like ass during playback before you do any alignment) - it really forces you to consider the sound of both mics in the context of each other - as one sound, rather than two distinct ones. One of the truisms of recording heavy guitar is that sometimes two sounds that don't sound so hot on their own combine to something that taken together is pretty devastating. You can certainly track this way positioning each mic individually, but you're forced to do so if you're trying to get them phase aligned. Food for thought...

again, you're twisting my point. I wouldn't recommend tracking and hoping the end result will combine positively. I'll put my money on combining two well recorded balanced tracks over two that are not.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

setting a mic further back is not phase aligning.

You know what I mean, though.

 

[Sonixx]

You know what I mean, though.

no, I don't. my post is directed to the comment about putting a mic further back and with wrt to close micing a cab, there's no way around comb filtering. it becomes a matter of using phase as a tool and not being a victim because of it.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Ok, I should probably be more clear - I'm not specifically endorsing the idea of moving a single mic backwards until it's perfectly out of phase, flipping the phase on the distance mic, and then rocking out.

I AM saying, however, that if you think trying to get two mics positioned such that they sound natural together doesn't make sense, then there's a whole slew of professional engineers who are going to disagree with you. I'm not saying that what you're doing now doesn't yield good results, and like I said it's an idea I want to play more with (and in my experience, even well-aligned mics can benefit from a slight visual position tweak after the fact), but just because it works for you doesn't necessarily mean that the alternative is necessarily invalid either.