Finally! Dreams do come true!

  • Thread starter Thread starter AllenM
  • Start date Start date
The MRL tape is only used for adjusting the reproduce electronics and that isn't the first, second or even third step. And you don't need a ton of gear to do it.

You need that MRL tape, a "true RMS" voltmeter with good accuracy over the audio band (accurate from at least 40Hz to 20kHz) and at least a software oscilloscope (like TrueRTA...free) and a decent audio interface for a computer to get the audio to the softscope...OR an analog oscilloscope which is better but the softscop will get the job done (the scope is for adjusting the azimuth)
 
Alright. I have an M-audio mobilepre interface. Maybe I could use that for the freeware program? It uses 1/4" input and has 2 xlr inputs as well. The RMS voltmeter is used to measure the output & input of the ms16?
 
...OR an analog oscilloscope which is better but the softscop will get the job done (the scope is for adjusting the azimuth)

I've used a couple of soft scope apps, they got me in the ballpark for the most part...but I agree, an analog scope is much better. Something about how an A/D interface messes with the input signals going to a soft scope that just doesn't work as well or as smoothly or as accurately as a hardware scope.
I picked up a decent quality and in good shape Tektronix scope on eBay for like $125.
Then I got brand new probes and assorted options from a Hong Kong seller for like $15...?
For less than $150...I have a nice/flexible scope that really does the job well.

Here's an interesting/puzzling consideration….
When I was talking to some guys on another analog/tape forum awhile back...one of the guys made a good case for NOT doing the azimuth or especially any of the other physical adjustments to the heads (tilt, etc)unless the deck was new it it was the first setup or if you had the heads relapped and/or were completely replacing them.

His point was that once tape starts working the heads...it creates a path, and if you do physical readjustments...you keep changing that path which may actually mess up the head's performance and subsequent electronic calibrations.
He felt that only the electronics should be adjusted once a deck has been broken in. His logic was that the heads or the screws that hold them won't move on their own so no need to physically readjust them.

I don't know...everyone seems to always do the azimuth with each calibration, even if they don't mess with the other physical head adjustments...but the guy make sense.

Like...if the used heads DID somehow get physically wacked out of position...how the heck to you find that pre-worn "path"...if the azimuth adjustment makes the tape ride off the path...???

That said...on may last calibrations that I did end of last winter...I did the azimuth anyway on both my 2-track and my 16 track. The 2-track was basically a brand new deck, so it was not problem, and the adjustments ended up back exactly where they were set at the factory...so that supports the "screws don't turn on their own" theory.
With my 16-track...it's older and has seem some use...but it's not worn, and even with it, the azimuth ended up in the same physical spot as where it was originally. (In both cases, I marked the positions of all screws with a fine-point marker...that way I know where things were before I messed with them. :D)

Alan...sweets is right...before you get to the MRL tape stage, there are a few steps you need to do just to set up the MRL calibration process. A service manual for the MS-16 would be best or at least a generic step-by-step guide.
With calibrations...EVERYTHING depends on the initial setup before you spin tape...otherwise you end up calibrating against a bad reference point if you skip something or don't get that starting point right....or don't follow the proper sequence of the whole process.

Here's some reading and viewing material for the weekend...you will see there is a basic processes, but also some differences in how each person does it:

(Keep some Advil on hand...you WILL get a headache, but once you start to unravel the process in your head...it's not too bad.) ;)

http://www.sonicraft.com/a2dx/Analog_Warriors.html

http://www.johnvestman.com/alignment.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW5kifLh598

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUMtN2kQtqw&feature=related

http://www.analogrules.com/basicalign.html
 
Thanks miroslav. Well in the manual the first part is measuring tape transport checks and adjustments. My ms16 seems to play the tape equally across the machine. Honestly... I am in the dark on this whole subject. Everything seems fine to me. The functions work great. Tape is even across the heads, looks exactly like the model shown in the service manual.
 
I watched both videos earlier on today. That clears some confusion I had. Well for those who dont know whats in the manual...
The process begins (i think) with TAPE transport checks and adjustments.
In order to do this I would need a spring scale attached with a string.

Brake mechanism
Brake Torque
Brake Torque mesurment
Pinch Roller Pressure
Tape tension servo/tape speed
Reel table height (I think mine is perfectly fine)
Tape speed
Wow and flutter (what is this??)
Capstan Servo
Tape Path fine adjustment
Tension Rollers
Tachometer roller and pinch roller azimuth
---- then comes record /reproduce amplifier checks and adjusted
there is a figure of 'correct tape travel' my ms16 looks exactly like the figure they have printed.
Head adjustment screw
Head Azimuth Test Setup
Input level calibration
Reproduce Level Calibration
ETC
 
I've used a couple of soft scope apps, they got me in the ballpark for the most part...but I agree, an analog scope is much better. Something about how an A/D interface messes with the input signals going to a soft scope that just doesn't work as well or as smoothly or as accurately as a hardware scope.
I picked up a decent quality and in good shape Tektronix scope on eBay for like $125.
Then I got brand new probes and assorted options from a Hong Kong seller for like $15...?
For less than $150...I have a nice/flexible scope that really does the job well.

Here's an interesting/puzzling consideration….
When I was talking to some guys on another analog/tape forum awhile back...one of the guys made a good case for NOT doing the azimuth or especially any of the other physical adjustments to the heads (tilt, etc)unless the deck was new it it was the first setup or if you had the heads relapped and/or were completely replacing them.

His point was that once tape starts working the heads...it creates a path, and if you do physical readjustments...you keep changing that path which may actually mess up the head's performance and subsequent electronic calibrations.
He felt that only the electronics should be adjusted once a deck has been broken in. His logic was that the heads or the screws that hold them won't move on their own so no need to physically readjust them.

I don't know...everyone seems to always do the azimuth with each calibration, even if they don't mess with the other physical head adjustments...but the guy make sense.

Like...if the used heads DID somehow get physically wacked out of position...how the heck to you find that pre-worn "path"...if the azimuth adjustment makes the tape ride off the path...???

That said...on may last calibrations that I did end of last winter...I did the azimuth anyway on both my 2-track and my 16 track. The 2-track was basically a brand new deck, so it was not problem, and the adjustments ended up back exactly where they were set at the factory...so that supports the "screws don't turn on their own" theory.
With my 16-track...it's older and has seem some use...but it's not worn, and even with it, the azimuth ended up in the same physical spot as where it was originally. (In both cases, I marked the positions of all screws with a fine-point marker...that way I know where things were before I messed with them. :D)

Alan...sweets is right...before you get to the MRL tape stage, there are a few steps you need to do just to set up the MRL calibration process. A service manual for the MS-16 would be best or at least a generic step-by-step guide.
With calibrations...EVERYTHING depends on the initial setup before you spin tape...otherwise you end up calibrating against a bad reference point if you skip something or don't get that starting point right....or don't follow the proper sequence of the whole process.

Here's some reading and viewing material for the weekend...you will see there is a basic processes, but also some differences in how each person does it:

(Keep some Advil on hand...you WILL get a headache, but once you start to unravel the process in your head...it's not too bad.) ;)

http://www.sonicraft.com/a2dx/Analog_Warriors.html

http://www.johnvestman.com/alignment.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW5kifLh598

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUMtN2kQtqw&feature=related

http://www.analogrules.com/basicalign.html

That's a good point on the azimuth adjustment, BUT...wear path is not so much a concern on heads like on the MS-16 with edge slots, and the wider you go the more potential for azimuth misalignment...we are talking fine azimuth adjust here...not major adjustment. I think its good to check periodically...electronic alignment was done frequently back in the day...sometimes multiple times a day...I wouldn't think azimuth would be checked except on a routine and less frequent basis in that scenario, but I don't see the need to align more often than 1~2 times per year in my situation...I just don't put that kind of mileage on my machines and they aren't moved around, so I may check the azimuth with each alignment just to be sure.

ALSO...the heads on a machine like the MS-16 are semi-fixed...I believe azimuth is the only adjustment. Upsetting a wear pattern is even less of a concern as a result.
 
Alright. I have an M-audio mobilepre interface. Maybe I could use that for the freeware program? It uses 1/4" input and has 2 xlr inputs as well. The RMS voltmeter is used to measure the output & input of the ms16?

Yes and yes.

The meter is to accurately measure the signal level going into or coming out of the MS-16 (depending in whether you are calibrating the input amp, record amd or reproduce amp). The VU meters are adjustable so you can't trust what they say so the true RMS meter gives you a quantitative measurement (i.e., as evm1024 said, -10dBv = 0.316VAC RMS).
 
...wear path is not so much a concern on heads like on the MS-16 with edge slots...

True...good point!

...I don't see the need to align more often than 1~2 times per year in my situation...I just don't put that kind of mileage on my machines and they aren't moved around, so I may check the azimuth with each alignment just to be sure.

Me too...maybe not even THAT often!!! :D
I'll do it between my projects that usually take a couple of years, since I'm mostly just recording my own stuff and it takes time to do 10-15 songs each with 20-30 tracks. But an album's worth of tracking rarely throws a deck out of alignment...and I'm using the same tape always (911).
I'll check/align after I complete one project and before I start the next...but not during a project so as not to mess up the stuff already recorded when I try to play it back (like if I did a mid-project re-alignment).
Once I dump tracks into my DAW, it doesn't matter, as I'll probably not go back to those tapes ever again...but I still keep them just in case.

I did full alignments end of last winter on my decks, and I also overhauled my M-3500 last winter ...and since then, I did only a few hours of tracking.
But now is my favorite tracking period...Fall/Winter into early Spring...so I'm ready to roll! :)
 
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