P
pbmar
New member
When recording from a vinyl record (LP) to my computer to burn a CD, how can I filter the scratchy noise from the LP?
K
kennedy connor
New member
"filtering" almost always results in a reduction in the quality of the sound recording. I have used a number of software devices to do this. Check out www.advancedaudio.com they make a product called DCART that sells for 100.00 USD and it is very easy to use and especially designed for use with vinyl. There are others like possibly stienberg??? These really work great for old records where the cracks and pops are extreme and also can remove hiss and general low level crap but always there is some loss of signal particularly on the high end. Used judiciously they can sound pretty good but never capture the original quality of the recording....
K
kennedy connor
New member
my mistake it's www.enhancedaudio.com
Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
Soundforge 5 with the noise reduction plug ins works pretty good. 
H
Havoc
New member
Still using my aging (ancient?) DartPro32. Prefer this above the CEP tools for click reduction. www.dartpro.com
Slackmaster2K
Gone
I've tried several noise reduction products, including a few that are intended specifically for vinyl restoration (e.g. from sonic foundry). I wouldn't recommend using ANY of them for music that you plan on listening to. Even simple pop & click removers just suck the life out of the sound, and noise reduction routines are even worse. Bright instruments lose a lot of character. Snare drums lose their snap...
Best bet is to manually remove real nasty pops manually in a wave editor, and just deal with the background noise. Of course the best way to minimize vinyl noise is to use a good stylus and always always clean & lubricate your records, every single time you play them.
Now I'm just talking about putting vinyl onto CD for listening. I'm not talking about special applications. If you really need to clean something up, I like Sonic Foundry's Click & Pop remover plugin, which also kills low frequency flutter. I use the low frequency killer on every record I digitize.
Slackmaster 2000
Best bet is to manually remove real nasty pops manually in a wave editor, and just deal with the background noise. Of course the best way to minimize vinyl noise is to use a good stylus and always always clean & lubricate your records, every single time you play them.
Now I'm just talking about putting vinyl onto CD for listening. I'm not talking about special applications. If you really need to clean something up, I like Sonic Foundry's Click & Pop remover plugin, which also kills low frequency flutter. I use the low frequency killer on every record I digitize.
Slackmaster 2000
C
chuckrhetts
New member
Hi Newbar, Like you I'm interested in transferring my old vinyl to cds. I've done a little of it and had some experiences that may help you out. If you are experienced skip it. If you want to get your vinyl onto cds and are new at it maybe it will.
I have tried Clean, Clean plus, and DCArt. I found that I didn't know enough to get results with these programs. If you know what attack times are maybe you can but I don't. What I could get good reults with was a shareware program called Groove Mechanic. The trial version is complete but it will only edit two minutes of the recording until you buy it.
Having said that let me qualify it. When editing out pops and clicks it can suck a lot of life out of the recording, so use a very light hand with the editing tools. It makes esses sibilant, it can make material dull, etc.
Some things I have learned that make a difference you can hear. Keep your stylus clean. Clean the lp. Play it once before you record. It helps a lot to get the record volume set as close to 0 Decibels as possible. Don't go over 0 period. Test record with the volume settings and see if the sound is good. Be sure you don't have the volume set to high on the soundcard or the software. The sound produced by Analog to Digital converters can vary greatly from one program to another. I like the converters in Clean Plus best out of the four I have tried. If you're counting, the fourth one I tried was Music Match Juke Box. Clean Plus is $150.00 but it also comes with a phono preamp. It is a complete recording, ripper editing package but I don't use very much of it now. You do need ad convertors from somewhere that you can live with. Some convertors make the music sound to bright and shrill. You will get a headache listening to it after awhile. If you have large clicks it works best if you get rid of the big ones manually before you run a program like Groove Mechanic or Clean Plus. You can do this with DCArt. I use the light version that came with my Easy CD Creator in my burner. If you're using an automatic program like Groove Mechanic and the first try doesn't get rid of all the clicks run it again with the same setting. Sometimes getting rid of one click uncovers another one and rerunning the editor will get it the second time around. If it doesn't, go up to the next level and hit it a little harder. Hiss and Rumble filters generally affect the music more than declicking. The smaller and slower the computer the bigger the affect. On my PII I wouldn"t use either one at all. Also at first I was using a PII 266 with 128 megs ram. I got a new PIV 1.3 and 256 megs ram. This change made the editing software work a ton betterand my recordings improved greatly. It got out more of the pops and clicks and did less damage to the recording. With the PII I was disatisfied with the results and didn't expect good results unless the lp's were in pristine condition. None of mine are. The PIV has made me a happy camper.
Good Luck.
I have tried Clean, Clean plus, and DCArt. I found that I didn't know enough to get results with these programs. If you know what attack times are maybe you can but I don't. What I could get good reults with was a shareware program called Groove Mechanic. The trial version is complete but it will only edit two minutes of the recording until you buy it.
Having said that let me qualify it. When editing out pops and clicks it can suck a lot of life out of the recording, so use a very light hand with the editing tools. It makes esses sibilant, it can make material dull, etc.
Some things I have learned that make a difference you can hear. Keep your stylus clean. Clean the lp. Play it once before you record. It helps a lot to get the record volume set as close to 0 Decibels as possible. Don't go over 0 period. Test record with the volume settings and see if the sound is good. Be sure you don't have the volume set to high on the soundcard or the software. The sound produced by Analog to Digital converters can vary greatly from one program to another. I like the converters in Clean Plus best out of the four I have tried. If you're counting, the fourth one I tried was Music Match Juke Box. Clean Plus is $150.00 but it also comes with a phono preamp. It is a complete recording, ripper editing package but I don't use very much of it now. You do need ad convertors from somewhere that you can live with. Some convertors make the music sound to bright and shrill. You will get a headache listening to it after awhile. If you have large clicks it works best if you get rid of the big ones manually before you run a program like Groove Mechanic or Clean Plus. You can do this with DCArt. I use the light version that came with my Easy CD Creator in my burner. If you're using an automatic program like Groove Mechanic and the first try doesn't get rid of all the clicks run it again with the same setting. Sometimes getting rid of one click uncovers another one and rerunning the editor will get it the second time around. If it doesn't, go up to the next level and hit it a little harder. Hiss and Rumble filters generally affect the music more than declicking. The smaller and slower the computer the bigger the affect. On my PII I wouldn"t use either one at all. Also at first I was using a PII 266 with 128 megs ram. I got a new PIV 1.3 and 256 megs ram. This change made the editing software work a ton betterand my recordings improved greatly. It got out more of the pops and clicks and did less damage to the recording. With the PII I was disatisfied with the results and didn't expect good results unless the lp's were in pristine condition. None of mine are. The PIV has made me a happy camper.
Good Luck.
H
Havoc
New member
Chuck, can you explain how running the same algorithm on a slow PII sounds worse than on a faster PIV???? That your soft runs smoother OK, but the end result is the same. It looks more that you had a problem comparing two results if the time between obtaining them is large.
Anyhow, I agree with your findings. With all of the restoring programs, if you use the automatic settings you have to be very carefull. The best results are still obtained with manual editing, but this can take a lot of time depending on the input. And getting the best possible input is the best way. I get the best results by making a few runs, let a few days pass and listen then to the results over the normal stereo before deciding the usable take or is there is more processing needed. Never make a decision after you spend hours chasing clicks and changing parameters, you are probably not objective anymore. You end up using a lot of CDs but the cost of these is minimal and with practise (and documenting your trials) you get better and faster.
Anyhow, I agree with your findings. With all of the restoring programs, if you use the automatic settings you have to be very carefull. The best results are still obtained with manual editing, but this can take a lot of time depending on the input. And getting the best possible input is the best way. I get the best results by making a few runs, let a few days pass and listen then to the results over the normal stereo before deciding the usable take or is there is more processing needed. Never make a decision after you spend hours chasing clicks and changing parameters, you are probably not objective anymore. You end up using a lot of CDs but the cost of these is minimal and with practise (and documenting your trials) you get better and faster.
C
chuckrhetts
New member
Hi Havoc, My guess was that the pII could not run the algorithm to its conclusion because there wasn't enough room and rounded things off resulting in a different digital signal. I don't know enough about how the computer works to know if this makes sense or not.
Eurythmic
majordomo plasticomo
This is an old thread, but I don't read the forum quite as often as I used to, and wanted to toss my $.02 in.
Steinberg's Clean! is very good for noise reduction - I've used it on some hissy cassettes, and I often run microphone-recorded tracks through it when I'm recording. If the hiss is slight, Clean! performs like a champ. If it's severe, you might be able to take the hiss out (but you'll add artifacts galore).
With records, I think your best bet would be not to opt for a software solution, but to make sure that your record and stylus are both clean before attempting to transfer the LP to your computer. I didn't keep my .wav files unfortunately, but I did a little experiment about a year ago - I took one of the worst sounding records I owned - a copy of <b>Tommy</b> that I'd left out in the open to gather dust for weeks at a time. I may have even stepped on the poor record once or twice. I mean I was really terrible to it. And I recorded the first 60 seconds of the song <i>Sensation</i> - then cleaned the record using a home cleaner recipe I'd found on the Internet. I recorded the same 60 seconds of audio, and A-B'd the two .wav files. The difference was seriously like night and day.
So I highly recommend that you clean your records rather than attempting to remove the noise via software. I think you'll be pleased with the result.
Steinberg's Clean! is very good for noise reduction - I've used it on some hissy cassettes, and I often run microphone-recorded tracks through it when I'm recording. If the hiss is slight, Clean! performs like a champ. If it's severe, you might be able to take the hiss out (but you'll add artifacts galore).
With records, I think your best bet would be not to opt for a software solution, but to make sure that your record and stylus are both clean before attempting to transfer the LP to your computer. I didn't keep my .wav files unfortunately, but I did a little experiment about a year ago - I took one of the worst sounding records I owned - a copy of <b>Tommy</b> that I'd left out in the open to gather dust for weeks at a time. I may have even stepped on the poor record once or twice. I mean I was really terrible to it. And I recorded the first 60 seconds of the song <i>Sensation</i> - then cleaned the record using a home cleaner recipe I'd found on the Internet. I recorded the same 60 seconds of audio, and A-B'd the two .wav files. The difference was seriously like night and day.
So I highly recommend that you clean your records rather than attempting to remove the noise via software. I think you'll be pleased with the result.