Fiberglass Material effectiveness??????

Be Loveless

New member
Okay, I get the impression that everyone is all shits and giggles over Semi Rigid Fiberglass panels for accoustic conditioning especially for use as bass traps. I happen to have access to several TONS (yes I mean Tons) of woven semi porus fiberglass bolts that were intended as material for shades and blinds several decades ago. This stuff is like thick paper or maybe burlap that is made from fiberglass. The bolts or rolls are maybe 6 foot by 7 inches circumference 3 inches in the center being a thick cardboard tube. I'll have to measure but at any rate they are pretty thick with the stuff. Would this material be useful for acoustic conditioning in the studio? Possibly the rolls just as they are as bass traps in the corners? I guess my question might be is what is it about rigid fiberglass board that makes it so effective and does this material have any of the same properties other than also being made of fiberglass? It's heavy and a pain in the ass to transfer so I don't want to get into it unless some others think that it might be worth a shot. Oh yeah its free for my taking thats why I'm curious about it. Take a pot shot at it. Thanks.---Benjie
 
Well rigid fiberglass is popular because it's easy to make into panels. But any kind of fiberglass insulation will do. I think Ethan even recommended simply putting rolls of insulation in the corner, but most people want something more finished-looking than that.

But this product you have sounds pretty flat. The idea behind fiberglass insulation is that the fibers can deflect to absorb acoustic energy and convert it to heat. But if the fibers are pressed really hard, they probably can't flex as much. For example the side of a boat (or Corvette) would not offer much absorption.

Not sure if your product will work or not.
 
Benjie,

I have to agree with mshilarious........ it probably won't work very well.

It's a totally different product than the rigid insulation boards.

One of the problems here with answering a question like yours is that seeing as the material was never intended for the use you suggest - it was never tested to see how it would work.

Thus there is no imperical data to support it...... so how can we really say for sure?

You can (of course) experiment with this........ and if you do - please let us know what happens.

Rod
 
The reason rigid fiberglass is so effective for sound treatment is because of its DENSITY more than anything else. OC 703 is a LOT more dense than the "pink stuff" and therefore a lot more effective at absorbing sound (I believe it's either 2 or 4 times more dense).

I actually built the bass-trap panels as designed on Ethan's site so I can definitely attest to their effectiveness, and also to the effectiveness of rigid fiberglass. I had big-time phase cancellation problems in the 80-400hz range in my control room that were plainly obvious (even without a spectral analyzer).

Since the addition of the traps the phase cancellation is GONE and I can now hear the lows and low mids clearly. As a result my mixes are now translating 100% better than they were before.

If anyone out there wants to attempt to build these and needs any pointers just let me know, I'd be happy to help. There are a few pitfalls to the process and a few things that weren't quite clear to me on Ethan's page, so I wound up making a few mistakes that had to be fixed later.

-Lance
 
I believe the range you are looking for in density is 2-4 PCF (pounds/cubic foot) material. 3PCF is supposed to be ideal for treating the acoustics in a room - from what I've been reading. OC703, the 2-3" Rock Wool (various brands) are all in that PCF range. Less dense or more dense and apparently the frequencies which typically cause problems in studios won't be reduced - or something :) Hey, I'm no expert - just trying to recall some things I've read about over the past few months :)

Sounds like the material you have would be much more dense, and as such less effective - if it would do anything at all.

-Krag
 
I get the impression that everyone is all shits and giggles over Semi Rigid Fiberglass panels

I get the impression you haven't even done a search on it here to find out what has been posted in regards to it already. :rolleyes:
Seems like anyone with a serious interest in something that applies to their studio would take time to address their curiosity by reading as much as they could to understand the question at hand.
But to address your question, you might want to know WHY rigid fiberglass does indeed work. Here is the general explanation.
Rigid fiberglass is referred to as a "resistive absorber". This is because, as
the air molecules move back and forth at a given frequency THROUGH the fiberglass, the fiber "interstices" place a resistance to this movement. This resistance transforms energy to heat. VOILA! Absorption. However, this takes place only because there is a boundary(wall) behind it. If there were no boundary, such as a wall, the sound would go THROUGH the panel, which would absorb very little, and continue on to oblivion, as in the case of an open window, which in reality is the PERFECT ABSORBER! But under the circumstances required by recording, who wants a bunch of open windows in thier studio. This boundary is what reflects the direction of the sound wave. But because there is zero velocity of the air molecules at a boundary, and maximum velocity at 1/4 wavelength, the standard explanation states that the thickness of the panel governs the lowest frequency it will absorb. More or less. Figure it like this.
A frequency of 100 hz has a wavelength of approx. 11.3 FEET. 1/4 of 11.3'
equals 2.8 feet. That is how thick the fiberglass would have to be to absorb down to 100 hz. Not very practical for low frequency. However, since there is zero motion of molecules at a boundary, it makes no sense to place the fiberglass directly against the boundary. Thats why it is recommended to set the fiberglass panel off of the boundary at least 1/2", as it is a waste of material to place it directly against it. Therefore, for a given thickness, you can lower the absorption frequency by leaving a airgap between the boundary and the fiberglass, which in effect, gives a greater distance between the face of the fiberglass and the boundary, as this distance is equal to 1/4 wavelength of a certain frequency, give or take. In a corner, this distance varies, which in effect gives a wider frequency band of absorption. You can simply place a panel of 2" to 4" across a corner of a room and it will perform perfectly.
And actually, peoply who place a frame around the edge of fiberglass panels, are removing some of the incident angle perfomance of the panel, as it absorbs even better for wavefronts entering at an angle to the panel. Tests have confirmed that panels whose edges are exposed , have a higher total absorption than those with edges covered. So, for those people who champher the edges of 3" or 4" thick panels, to make them flush at corner placement, or cover these edges with a frame, are actually reducing the performance of the absorber.
The performance of ANY fiberglass panel though, is also governed by its density. Normal fiber batt insulation has about a 1/3 density of Owens Corning 703, although batts come in varied densitys. Some types of rigid fiberglass, like OC 705, come with a membrane on one face, which I believe is aluminum, which also can improve absorption in the low end, and diffuse higher frequencys. BTW, this information has been posted here at least a dozen times. There is tons of information on this subject all over the net.
So, in regards to your use of the bolts, I would also be of the opinion that it will not perform the task of absorption, at least not in the proportion or frequency range that rigid fiberglass panels do.
Well, thats my .02 on this anyway. BTW, here is my disclaimer. I AM NOT AN EXPERT. Only a somewhat enlightened HR member. I only became enlightend to an extent by reading. Good luck with your fiberglass.
fitZ
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
I get the impression you haven't even done a search on it here to find out what has been posted in regards to it already. :rolleyes:
Look I appreciate the response but there is no need to preech at me about doing a search first. I HAD read many a post on the subject of fiberglass and thats how I got the Idea that the material in question may be of some use to me. However I have never read any mention of this stuff specifically and wanted t find if anyone knew about it or could present areasonable theory. My initial intention was to inqire as to the possible use of the material I have access to but I think as I type and also requested info on HOW rigid functions. I believe this was a legitimate subject for a new thread seeing as how it dealt with a previously undiscussed material and see no reason to get haughty with me. Jesus fucking Christ.
 
Vertig07 said:
The reason rigid fiberglass is so effective for sound treatment is because of its DENSITY more than anything else. OC 703 is a LOT more dense than the "pink stuff" and therefore a lot more effective at absorbing sound (I believe it's either 2 or 4 times more dense).

The pink stuff is pretty dense before you open the package, heh.
:o
 
I believe this was a legitimate subject for a new thread seeing as how it dealt with a previously undiscussed material andason to get haughty with me. Jesus fucking

That sounds reasonable. And I wasn't getting haughty with you. I was responding to what sounded to me like a snot nosed kid with an know it all attitude. I've seen it a hundred times here. I mean, lets get real. When someone states "......everyone is shits and giggles......", that sounds a bit haughty. The fact is, lots of people ask for information that has to be posted over and over and over when it is all over the archives if not 20 places on the net. I don't mind sharing what little I know either. I cop an attitude sometimes myself, when I read "haughty" sounding statements that give me the impression that the person is too damn lazy to look for the information. If I was wrong in this case, then please accept my apology. And by the way, I wasn't preaching. I just get amazed at the lack of inquiring intuition by some people. I don't put myself in an ivory tower by any means, but "JFC", sometimes it fucking amazes me. So take it with a grain of salt. I hope it helped unravel a bit of the "science" behind this stuff. Again, I don't mind telling people what I've learned myself, because we share an interest in the same thing. But a lot of what I have learned, came from researching it on my own. That means reading forum archives, books, articles and even going to the fucking library, of which I've come to the conclusion, a lot of people who visit here, don't have a clue that librarys exist. They've become spoiled growing up in the computer era and have become lazier than shit. I see it all the time. :( Not to mention adults that post here, who fucked off their shool years and can't even read or write worth a shit . Tell ME that doesn't fucking exist HERE!!! Read a few of the the current threads on this bbs, and that should illustrate my point perfectly. Some of them I barely could read myself.
fitZ :rolleyes:
 
It sounds like what the original poster has is fiberglass fabric, not batting, often used in wallcoverings and upholstery. It is not going to provide much in terms of sound absorbtion..
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
That sounds reasonable. And I wasn't getting haughty with you. I was responding to what sounded to me like a snot nosed kid with an know it all attitude. I've seen it a hundred times here. I mean, lets get real. When someone states "......everyone is shits and giggles......", that sounds a bit haughty. The fact is, lots of people ask for information that has to be posted over and over and over when it is all over the archives if not 20 places on the net. I don't mind sharing what little I know either. I cop an attitude sometimes myself, when I read "haughty" sounding statements that give me the impression that the person is too damn lazy to look for the information. If I was wrong in this case, then please accept my apology. And by the way, I wasn't preaching. I just get amazed at the lack of inquiring intuition by some people. I don't put myself in an ivory tower by any means, but "JFC", sometimes it fucking amazes me. So take it with a grain of salt. I hope it helped unravel a bit of the "science" behind this stuff. Again, I don't mind telling people what I've learned myself, because we share an interest in the same thing. But a lot of what I have learned, came from researching it on my own. That means reading forum archives, books, articles and even going to the fucking library, of which I've come to the conclusion, a lot of people who visit here, don't have a clue that librarys exist. They've become spoiled growing up in the computer era and have become lazier than shit. I see it all the time. :( Not to mention adults that post here, who fucked off their shool years and can't even read or write worth a shit . Tell ME that doesn't fucking exist HERE!!! Read a few of the the current threads on this bbs, and that should illustrate my point perfectly. Some of them I barely could read myself.
fitZ :rolleyes:
I guess I can see your interpertation and i agree with you and I don't like the folks that don't "search first" myself, I guess thats why I got a little offended when you aproached me like i was one of them. No harm done. Oh and I use "Shits and Giggles" in the positive. If something were to make me "Shit and Giggle" I'd assume that it was a fairly powerful thing. I'm still learning to communicate effectively in these casual text only enviroments. It is some times difficult to have a conversation without Body language, facial gestures and vocal inflections to assist the process. Thanks for the responses everybody but I broke down and bought a case of 1 and1/2 inch 703 today.
 
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