Fender Champ 12

[nate_dennis]

Does anyone have any experience with this amp? I found one cheap online and I don't really have the option of trying it out. I'll look for sound sound clips online, but I thought I'd get your thoughts. I'm looking at a champ 12 for $300 or I could score a Blues JR for 250. I'm looking for blues/classic rock/indie-ish tones. What do you all think?


Nate

 

[buckkillr8]

I'd go with the blues jr from those two. I don't think the Champ 12 is the same champ that we all love.

 

[ocnor]

I'm looking at a champ 12 for $300 or I could score a Blues JR for 250.

That's like choosing between shite-on-a-shingle or a steaming turd sandwich.

 

[nate_dennis]

That's like choosing between shite-on-a-shingle or a steaming turd sandwich.

Why is that? I thought that the blues jr was a pretty decent little amp? I haven't had the opportunity to play through one, but from the demos i've seen/heard and the reviews I've read, I got the impression they were decent.

 

[ranjam]

That's like choosing between shite-on-a-shingle or a steaming turd sandwich.

Not so. I'd say more like shite-on-a-shingle or an amplifier used by people like James Valentine. Take the Blues Junior, and know you have a decent amplifier (although only suitable for recording), regardless of what ocnor says. It does have issues, but a good tech can remedy that, and you'll have a great recording amplifier that is reliable. Anyone who disagrees, just ask them how many albums they've sold, and how they got their awesome tone on those multi-platinum selling albums. *DISCLAIMER* I am not related to, nor romantically involved with, any member of Maroon 5, past or present. This is not by choice, but by God's design. Your milage may vary.

 

[nate_dennis]

...you have a decent amplifier (although only suitable for recording...

Why is this? (Sorry for all the questions.) If it were used for small shows and church stuff wouldn't it be loud enough? If not couldn't one just mic it? Thanks for the help guys.

 

[ocnor]

Not so. I'd say more like shite-on-a-shingle or an amplifier used by people like James Valentine.

Wow he's so famous that I've never heard of him.

Anyone who disagrees, just ask them how many albums they've sold, and how they got their awesome tone on those multi-platinum selling albums.

Since when does selling albums have anything to do with amp quality?

It does have issues, but a good tech can remedy that

Not exactly a glowing recommendation is it. Maybe Lt Bob will chime in about the Blues Junior's awesome tone.

I am not related to, nor romantically involved with, any member of Maroon 5, past or present. This is not by choice

Maroon 5? HAAA..HAAA..HAAA.. stop you're killing me!

 

[357mag]

Why is this? (Sorry for all the questions.) If it were used for small shows and church stuff wouldn't it be loud enough? If not couldn't one just mic it? Thanks for the help guys.

Yeah just mic it and you're good to go. The Blues Junior is kind of a bright sounding amp. Not a lot of bass at all. A Marshall AVT20 has a 10" speaker and it has more depth than the Blues Junior.

But there are some mods that can be done as mentioned earlier that can help. I believe there is a kit on Ebay called the BillM Mods Kit that your technician can use to mod the amp.

 

[ranjam]

There are so many myths about great tone that you fall victim to just repeating them without knowing why. Small amps give great tone, and all you have do is mic them when you play live. When you leave your bedroom and hit the real world and real stages (and not in a corner on the floor at the local Legion), a Fender Champ pushing 5-watts into a little 8" speaker just ain't gonna cut it against most drummers, regardless of what mic you use. Out in the audience they may hear it fine, and dig that paper and comb tone, but on stage you wonder if your amp is even on. I stopped buying into that hype years ago when I started playing for more than ten people in one room. Record it, and they sound fine, but I'll add the proviso with bigger speakers to get some low end, and low powered speakers for some cone break up. Sure, Jimmy Page recorded with a small Supro, but his tone is like a constipated kazoo. Sorry.
And for ocnor;

1. Jimmy Valentine hasn't heard of you either, so I guess that makes you two even. I picked his name because the Fender website shows Jimmy with a Blues Junior, not because I love Jimmy or Maroon 5. To be fair, even Buddy Guy with a Cyber Twin could never convince me to try one. Buddy's tone is crap, and so is the Cyber Twin.
2. Whether or not I like the band, Jimmy Valentine is featured more than once on the Fender website and their Frontline magazine. Add their heavy MTV rotation, and that's a lot of exposure.
3. Now compare that to your exposure to the music buying public. To be fair, my exposure isn't any better.
4. While people like you or I scrimp, walk to work, and eat meat maybe just once or twice a week to try and afford that tube compressor, others have it much easier. People like Jimmy Valentine (who sells a lot records) can pretty much buy whatever the hell he feels like buying, and he still chose a Blues Junior. Not a Trainwreck, or a Matchless, or a Dumble. But a simple, small, and pretty decent Blues Junior. I'll wager my left nut he uses it to record, and doesn't play large hockey arenas with just a Blues Junior through the PA. Is the Blues Junior better than all the others I just mentioned? Hell, no. Don't be stupid. But it works just fine, and if it gets a beer spilled on it, he doesn't cry.

The Blues Junior has been know to leave the factory with a bias that is pretty hot, and they will go through tubes. I forget the web site, but there is one out there with a few Blues Junior mods, and mentions the different version, that can be indentified by the circuit board. I remember some variations centered on the Reverb, the FAT switch, and maybe the board layout for whatever stability issues. I don't remember exactly because I will never own a Blues Junior personally. Ever. But I don't ridicule my friends that do.

 

[357mag]

Unless you're planning on playing huge bars that seat thousands or you're going on tour with Motley Crue you don't need stacks of amps and speakers. It's simply overkill. A combo is all you need. Mic it and have your guitar also coming through the monitors and you will hear your monitor better than the sound coming from your amp anyway.

Over at the Marshall forum there are so many guys into these huge ass heads and 4 x 12 cabinets. I think it's musical testosterone myself. Unless of course as I stated above you actually need that kind of rig but you certainly don't need a stack to practice in your bedroom.

 

[dintymoore]

A friend left his Blue Junior with me for awhile. Last week we used it for a rehearsal and it's a great little amp. It has a mid tone control which helps.

Another great amp for the money from an unlikely company is the Pignose GV40. I believe that it was designed by a guy from Ampeg. That is a fantastic sounding amp.

The best all around gig amp, because the above are on the lightweight side might be the Fender Deluxe Reverb. I think that if you took a GV40 or Blues Junior and rebuilt it with a 12" speaker you'd have a pretty good amp too. There's something about 12" speakers that, to me, sounds more "guitar like". More bottom.

I've never heard a tube amp that sounded bad, versus solid state amps that most seem to be so-so and some are great. The trouble with tiny amps live is past a certain point you can't get clean sounds. If you're playing Stones it's not a problem, and you can mic it so I say why carry big amps!

 

[357mag]

The Blues Junior comes with a 12" speaker.

 

[dintymoore]

The Blues Junior comes with a 12" speaker.

Yes, I just looked and it is indeed a 12". It's not my amp and was left in my studio awhile ago. Last week was the first time I'd ever heard it. I had for some reason thought it was a 10"... no wonder it sounded good at practice.

In that case it seems like a perfect gigging amp.

 

[ranjam]

Unless you're planning on playing huge bars that seat thousands or you're going on tour with Motley Crue you don't need stacks of amps and speakers. It's simply overkill. A combo is all you need. Mic it and have your guitar also coming through the monitors and you will hear your monitor better than the sound coming from your amp anyway.

The trouble with tiny amps live is past a certain point you can't get clean sounds. If you're playing Stones it's not a problem, and you can mic it so I say why carry big amps!

I used to beieve that, too. Until every soundman reminded me you want clear and clean volcals coming through the monitors, and not my teeny weenie guitar with some cheezy Big Muff on top. And I've played with more than one bass player who wanted to use his rack mount Sans Amp BDI into the mains (why carry a power amp or big speaker cabinets?). That went over about equally as well. So we have amplifiers on stage. And we want some clean headroom, so that 5-watt Champ isn't an option (just as dintymoore knows). I equate it with driving a Cadillac and bitching about the gas milage. To be looked on as a professional, you show up to professional gigs with professional (and appropriate) gear. That Longhorn tailgate party is a whole 'nother thang. Just as electronic drums did not spell the demise of acoustic drums, little amps did not put any nails in any stacks' coffin. Testosterone or not, the laws of physics won't allow a Champ to 'feel' the same as a stack.

 

[Thurgood]

Don't know if this is still on topic (Fender Champ 12). Buy the blues Jr. Unless you want to buy my Champ 12. PM me for a brief discourse on the Champ 12.

 

[Tadpui]

I used to beieve that, too. Until every soundman reminded me you want clear and clean volcals coming through the monitors, and not my teeny weenie guitar with some cheezy Big Muff on top. And I've played with more than one bass player who wanted to use his rack mount Sans Amp BDI into the mains (why carry a power amp or big speaker cabinets?). That went over about equally as well. So we have amplifiers on stage. And we want some clean headroom, so that 5-watt Champ isn't an option (just as dintymoore knows). I equate it with driving a Cadillac and bitching about the gas milage. To be looked on as a professional, you show up to professional gigs with professional (and appropriate) gear. That Longhorn tailgate party is a whole 'nother thang. Just as electronic drums did not spell the demise of acoustic drums, little amps did not put any nails in any stacks' coffin. Testosterone or not, the laws of physics won't allow a Champ to 'feel' the same as a stack.

I'd think that a good sound man could EQ and pan everything so that each instrument coming through the mains has its own sonic space to occupy without stepping on any of the other instruments. I mean, at every arena-sized show, they have to do that. So why would it work differently in a smaller venue? I understand if the PA system is underpowered, but if you've got the juice and the channels, I'd imagine that running guitars and bass through the mains wouldn't be an issue unless they're not EQ'd properly and they're all competing for the same frequencies. But I'm not a sound guy nor a stage performer so maybe thinking in terms of a studio mix doesn't apply to this situation.