Favorite mic for acoustic, especially violin?

J

jhughs

New member
This may be too obscure a question, but do you have a favorite mic (or combination of mics) for recording acoustic instruments like guitar and especially violin?
 
i'm recording a violin currently and am useing a
at 4033 and am digging it on this project.

(not everyone can afford shoeps)
 
On steel string acoustic, a Schoeps MK41 pair is my favorite. Right now I'm liking the combined sound of my MK41 and Beyer M160 ribbon on classical guitar. The ribbon mic is very smooth and rich and the Schoeps condenser is very clearly articulate with a sweet high end. And luckily they combine nicely without phase problems as long as their capsules are nearly coincident or they're in line with one another coming out from the guitar.

Along with that, sometimes a spaced pair of omni's around 6 ft out sound good blended in with the other mic's just a little - adds a little spaciousness. Sometimes I just use them for the reverb sends. For those the Behringer ECM8000 cheapies work fine for me.

For violin I'd avoid small, bright rooms and mic's with any high end harshness (most of the cheapo's).

Tim
 
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The bright small diaphragm mics are very useable if you get some distance, say 3', and position them at chest level, aimed at the side of the violin. I like that much better than a ribbon positioned above, or nearly anywhere else.
 
Thanks and what's considered "cheapo"?

Thanks for the advice on the mics, room space and especially microphone position.

On how to avoid high end harshness common in "cheapo mics" uh at what point are microphones considered "cheapo"? <$100, <$200, or what? I'm using an AT3035 now (I'm still new to recording and am trying to resist the Siren call of GAS).
 
I've had decent luck recording the violin with an SM57 which I would call a 'cheapo'. Off axis and a couple of feet away makes a huge difference and reduces bow noise :rolleyes: and high end harshness. Dave's $.02.
 
I have had good luck with MXL 603s, and someone I know in town who is tremendously accomplished will not play without her.. get this... Rode NT1??!!

I have to admit, though, it does sound good.

Pete
Meter 12
Burn Cycle Productions
 
jhughs said:
On how to avoid high end harshness common in "cheapo mics" uh at what point are microphones considered "cheapo"? <$100, <$200, or what? I'm using an AT3035 now (I'm still new to recording and am trying to resist the Siren call of GAS).
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Should be very useable, with attention to placement, in a decent room. Really those are the keys to everything.
 
at what point are microphones considered "cheapo"?
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I dunno, I guess it depends on how much a person has invested in their studio, what they record and what they are going to do with their finished recordings.

For me cheapo in a condenser mic means under a few hundred. But my frame of reference on that changed a lot when I auditioned some Neumann and Schoeps mic's a few years ago. Before that I thought $300 was expensive and that I should just maximize mic quality by how I used them. After hearing the difference I was ready to open my checkbook really wide.

The way I see the quality difference, based on my own mic collection, the less expensive condensers generally give excellent sonic detail but have other negatives to their sound, and they get more noticeable the more you listen to them and compare them to better mic's. Negatives like transient harshness, phasey off-axis sound, spiky frequency response, screechy quality to the high end. There are workarounds to minimize a lot of these things, and you can make good recordings with inexpensive gear. I guess the whole quality/price comparison thing came up because the original question was about favorite mic's.

Hell, the room matters more than the mic's anyway!

Tim
 
up-fiddler said:
I've had decent luck recording the violin with an SM57 which I would call a 'cheapo'. Off axis and a couple of feet away makes a huge difference and reduces bow noise :rolleyes: and high end harshness. Dave's $.02.
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High-end harshness on a SM57? Well, it is easy to avoid -- there is no high-end on a SM57 :rolleyes:

Sorry, couldn't resist,


-- Per.
 
Before our remodelling (the room not at it's best), I tried to record cello and viola. Because of the poor sound quality of the room, I took a shot at it close micing...didn't turn out very well at all. I tried micing close to the neck joints and side of the body but no dice. Perhaps a lack of experience but to me it seems something about those instruments you need to back away to hear it properly. I haven't had a chance to do any more since.
 
it seems something about those instruments you need to back away to hear it properly.
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Thanks Punkin for the revealing story. I agree that the room has everything to do with sound quality.

I think part of the mic distance issue for classical instruments stems from the fact that musicians of different genres seem to speak totally different languages about these things and about musical aesthetics in general. Close mic'ing in classical music generally means 3 or 4 ft away. In other genres it means 3 or 4 inches. And the problem is that to mic from a few feet away takes a good sounding room, rare in home or small studio recording.

Tim
 
exactly...my idea of close micing is a matter of intimacy to the point where the room plays little in the recording. imho, many stringed instruments sound best/better when standing back a few feet giving the sound coming from the body and the neck and other parts to blend. Guitar seems to be one of the better exception (again imho) where we can mic closely with very good results.
 
imho, many stringed instruments sound best/better when standing back a few feet giving the sound coming from the body and the neck and other parts to blend
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How true. Hell, when I was a conservatory student all of us spent huge effort to learn to get the maximum projection and tone quality from our instruments, among other things. To record that sound the mic's have to be far enough away to hear the total sound of the instrument.

I think steel string acoustic sounds beautiful with very close mic'ing. Classical guitar can sound really sweet mic'd close, but I prefer it a few feet away personally with very sensitive mic's to get more of the total sound. In fact, Schoeps hypercard's 4 feet away still sound to me like my head's inside the soundhole.

I really enjoyed touring your website
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Thanks Punkin. You're welcome back anytime.

Tim
 
I came as close as placing the order for a pair of CM6's, but Macmidimusic failed to honor their online price, and tried to jack it up. Grrr. The price just got too high, and I wound up with a pair of Neumann KM184's. Are they Schoeps? No. Do I like them? Yes. They are lovely as a remote stereo pair, good on guitar and violin. But see? it all goes in levels. For just acoustic guitar, I like large diaphragm condensers, that's just me. But I've had my best luck on violin and viola with small diaphagm mics. I like Oktava MC012 for cheap. Appropriate mics for what you want to do vary from about $40 apiece (Behringer ECM8000) to $1250 apiece or so (Schoeps/DPA and the like), and of course vintage ribbons are favored for violin and they can cost much, much more. Going up by grades, I like Studio Projects C-4 ($300/pr), Shure SM81 ($650/pr), Josephson C42 (I think a pair is about $1100 or so) . The price on the Oktavas varies wildly depending on the source and how well they are matched, if at all. I have a pair I bought at GC for $500 each, and they are perfectly usable mics. You pays your money and chooses your poison. -Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
I came as close as placing the order for a pair of CM6's, but Macmidimusic failed to honor their online price
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Sorry to thread-hijack, but these guys are awful. I placed an order back in December, got email confirmation, and then . . . nothing. No item, no credit card charge, no email, nothing. I thought about complaining, but then I thought better when I realized they didn't have my money and I didn't want to give them another opportunity to screw up.

Wonderful service :mad:
 
Microtech Gefell M300's are in a similar family as the Neumann KM184 and Josephson C42. I had a KM184, which is a great mic, but traded it away when a pair of M300's came along. It was hard to justify having that much money tied up in mics that covered similar territory.
Btw, I got the pair of M300's slightly used for 1050.00.

Terry
 
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