Fattest-sounding mic for Guitar Amp

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papamaverick

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Looking for exactly that - fattest sounding mic for guitar amp under $300ish. Doesn't need to sound perfect for anything else, it could sound like total crap for vocals or stuff but I just want a fat guitar sound.

Yeah SM57 everybody says that. Very midrange, works well at times but already have access to several. Wouldn't describe the sound as "fat" or "thick" either.
MD421 - another popular pick. More balanced (imho) than the SM57 but not very fat...more treble.

Prefer switchable patterns....I'm thinking large-diaphragm condensors at this point - MXL67, MXL69, and C3 in particular.

Opinions?

Thanks

Dave
 
Yea, distorted or clean?

I'm guessing distorted. Hmmmm . . . And I'm assuming from your description that by "fat," you mean that it picks up more bass. I'd say Electrovoice RE-20 . . . or if that's out of your budget, then try your favorite kick drum mic, or get on ebay and find a good, used Beyer ribbon mic like the M160 (usually go for $250 -ish).

I never use condensers for distorted guitar, by the way. Usually too much extra junk going on that you don't necessarily want a mic to accurately capture.
 
Clean and distorted both...slide, picked, blues, rock, jazz - all of the above. Just want it to capture what is coming out of the cabinet.

Regarding condensor mics...I normally use a Neumann 140 (small-diaphragm condensor) on guitar amp right now and am much happier with that than with the 57 and 421, yet it doesn't quite have the smooth bass response that I'm looking for.

I'm looking for a mic that will allow me to accurately capture the sound coming out of the amp. The mic I would buy if I had the money would be a Royer 121; thats not happening. And as far as the $200-$300 price range, I'm looking for something new in that range so I can find a used one in the $100-$200 range.

I've heard Beyer ribbon mics recommended before but they're out of my price range. C3 would be nice because it would allow for figure-8 micing along with cardiod but at the same time I doubt i'll be able to find one used under $200. Same deal for MD441 and RE-20.

Figure-8 seems attractive to me because of the air/room noise you'll pick up on the reverse side...like having a cardiod amp mic and cardiod room mic that you blend by controlling the distance from the amp. Any LDCs in figure-8 available under $200 used?
 
Beyer M69/M88,
Sennheiser MD421/441,
RE20,
AKG C1000 (distorted)
SP B1/B3

And many more.
 
I really like the BLUE Ball on guitar amp. It has a nice, meaty bass and lower-mids boost. Just the other night I recorded some really, really nice distorted guitar tracks with it.

I also like Chess's suggestion to try your favorite kick drum mic.
 
off the wall

try a big speaker thats 15 inches in diameter wired to a quarter inch plug used as a microphone . but watch the input levels to the mixer
. if you get the right speaker. BIG LOWS !
ive done it and had interesting guitar tracks.
 
What will actually bring you the fatness you are looking for is something like an MD-421 (older version) or 441 into a cranked up Great River NV. Cranking the input hard will thicken things up and tame the high end a little. I havent used mine enough to make great calls on it, but damn, thats the ticket for thickness my man. Thats the ticket. Slam it through an opto after that and you are probably all the way there.
 
papamaverick said:
Clean and distorted both...slide, picked, blues, rock, jazz - all of the above. Just want it to capture what is coming out of the cabinet . . . The mic I would buy if I had the money would be a Royer 121; thats not happening. And as far as the $200-$300 price range, I'm looking for something new in that range so I can find a used one in the $100-$200 range."


I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it just ain't happenin.'

No one mic is going to do it all from distorted to clean and sound great . . . and for under $200 used.

You're asking for too much for too little. Although people have been doing it for quite some time with a '57 . . . but apparently you haven't figured out how to get what you want out that one just yet. Keep experimenting.
 
Chessrock...and interested others...

I realize that whatever mic i choose will not by any means get me professional-sounding recordings. I'm not asking for that necessarily. At the same time, a SM57 is a very professional microphone, for under $100, that will do a rather good job on almost anything electric guitar. Not the best mic all the time (and as i've said not necessarily my cup'o'tea) but certainly nothing to be ashamed of using.

No mic will ever fill all needs. I think what you might be thinking about in terms of clean vs. distorted is nu-metal guitar sounds - you know, the triple rectum-fryers that every rich teenage kid seems to have. Those very-high-gain sounds are a whole 'nother ballpark well covered by Slipperman's posts at Recpit. I'm talking about blues-type gain, which involves a lot more subtlety and more often than not, using the guitar volume control to manage the amp's dirt level. Most of the time one mic WILL have to cover the gamut of sounds just to preserve continuity.

For other instruments (vox, drums, bass, etc) there is a very definate increase in quality as price increases. The same holds true for guitar, but at the same time, all electric guitar history is based around (relatively) cheap guitar, amp, and effect designs. Almost all components in all the "vintage" stuff that (whether it sounds good of not) is so popular were chosen because of price factor - not sound quality. That is the history of electric guitar sound - cheap. Even the SM57 was used on guitar amps partly because all the nice mics were used elsewhere.

So if I were an audiophile with golden ears and unlimited budget, I would agree wholeheartedly - I'd be asking too much for too little. However if that were the case, I wouldn't be posting on Home Recording BBS. Thats why I posted here instead of other places like Recpit that are full of professional AEs.

All that said, I do appreciate whatever advise you have, if for no other reason than you know whats out there. Part of the reason I'm buying this mic is because I'm using a low-powered amp (Fender Deluxe Reverb) and will have to mic the amp for gigs. Having my own mic will provide me with a consistent sound gig-to-gig and also let me use it as a starting point in the studio. For studio work, I do have access to 57s, 441s, various AKG condensors including a matched pair of 414s, a Neumann TLM-103, and a matched pair of Neumann 140s. Not the most expensive compared to U47/67/87, C1, boutique mics, etc but then again I need to spend time worrying about my chops and not the difference between $1k and $20k mics.

Having done several searches here and elsewhere, I think I've narrowed choice down to two mics: Marshall V67 and Marshall V93. What is the difference between the V93 ($110street) and V2003 ($250street)? I couldn't find any info on that.

Thanks for all your help
Dave
 
papamaverick said:
Having done several searches here and elsewhere, I think I've narrowed choice down to two mics: Marshall V67 and Marshall V93. What is the difference between the V93 ($110street) and V2003 ($250street)? I couldn't find any info on that.

Thanks for all your help
Dave

I know from personal experience that the V67 is not that great on amp. Not smooth enough, in my experience. The Studio Projects B1 is much better in that application, if you're sure you want to use a condensor.
 
If I understand you correctly, you're going to be using this in a live situation as well as in the studio...And the studio mic list you gave seems to have several pieces which would, to my ears, accomplish the sound you describe. As for live, the earlier advice given about the kik drum or bass cabinet is sound quality advice.My choices in this matter would not be some real inexpensive condenser,especially live,due to the myriad of noise problems that can be generated on a stage and picked up and amplified by such a mic.I would instead opt for a mic that has a limited sensitivity,a large frequency response in the lows,lowmids,and uppermids,with just enough highs to create a nice gloss,and something rugged. There are a few in this range and not that many in this price range..Try an ATM25...even its little brother ATM25Pro...An Audix D4 is a nice mic....for more cash, the RE20,Shure SM7,Beyer 160 ribbon.......as usual...ymmv...but not sticking one of these on yer Deluxe may mean yer missing out on a true gem....BTW....I record a LOT of small fender amps in just the style you speak of and these mics work like a charm...especially the ATM25.
 
AT4050 in figure 8. Hands down the sweetest sound I have heard, Clean and dirty. Dont bother trying it on vox. Its small sounding and dark.



Justin
 
papamaverick said:
Having done several searches here and elsewhere, I think I've narrowed choice down to two mics: Marshall V67 and Marshall V93. What is the difference between the V93 ($110street) and V2003 ($250street)? I couldn't find any info on that.

I still don't think you'd be very happy with any of those options, but I could be wrong. Depends on how picky you are (you did say fat) . . . and you did ask what's going to give you the fattest sound, so some of us tried to help you out.

I still think you want too much for too little, but I guess everyone has to go through and learn for themselves.
 
Does Guitar Center carry most of these mics? Hopefully I can get down there soon and A/B/C these with my amp and guitar. Either that or take advantage of their return policy ;-) I want to try as many of these mics as possible before deciding.

Btw AT 4050 is out of my range.

Any other cheap suggestions?
 
Dunno why I always forget to mention this, but buy a fucking e609 Silver and be done with it. You wont find better new for the cash... and save for a preamp. I'm telling you dude, there is NO mic that just has that thick sound you are talking about. That comes from a combination of the preamp, compressor, and often times being doubled and tripled. Thats even considering your amp sounds thick in the 1st place.
Transformers are what you are probably looking for, lots of iron. I'd bet on it.
 
Have you noticed that 'great guitar sounds' not always sound great in the mix?

In your situation I would definately try the SP B1 which is an accurate sounding mic for only $80 and the sound will 'sit' very nicely in the mix.

Hope this helps.
 
papa

getting the kind of sound you want papa is more about engineering than the mic used imho. i know what yiou want, and some days i get that sound but its normally through luck and moving the mic around in positions, and the type of amp used and many other settings ive stumbled across rather than the mic used. i'm not sure a different mic will give you what you want necessarily. i would experiment more with amps/settings,
positioning, room natural sound, ....
i agree with one of the other posters that sometimes a soloed track that sounds really bad can sound a1 in a mix.
 
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