Far field micing-some help

[guhlenn]

Hi,

I'm recording my guitars (through 2x12"). all my gear is good. Now I'm fed upo with the sm57 sound and after reading the whole monster mic thread (it was worth every minute) I concluded that I want to also record the farfield. I have 4 sm57's , an old condensor (electret) which actually works prett y well and a MD421. I guses i would need a decent condensor mic (something like the AT4033?). But how do i place it and are there any tips? I would like to stay as close to the tone that comes out of my speakers... I even considered teh behringer ECM 8000 because it's supposed to be uncolored, but then i hear about a lot of hiss and i backed off...

Any help would be appreciated. I cannot afford A ribbon mic (they are all 1000,- or over right?) but i would sure like to... LOL

 

[DJL]

Hi,

I'm recording my guitars (through 2x12"). all my gear is good. Now I'm fed upo with the sm57 sound and after reading the whole monster mic thread (it was worth every minute) I concluded that I want to also record the farfield. I have 4 sm57's , an old condensor (electret) which actually works prett y well and a MD421. I guses i would need a decent condensor mic (something like the AT4033?). But how do i place it and are there any tips? I would like to stay as close to the tone that comes out of my speakers... I even considered teh behringer ECM 8000 because it's supposed to be uncolored, but then i hear about a lot of hiss and i backed off...

Any help would be appreciated. I cannot afford A ribbon mic (they are all 1000,- or over right?) but i would sure like to... LOL

Humm, I'd use a farfield mic to add color (room color, etc)... not for reducing color. Most LDC mics tend to be more colorful than SDC... the Shure SM81 is a pretty accurate mic that you may want to checkout.

 

[guhlenn]

My point is not to add room (i might just be doing only that, but that is not my intention...) but to add a little more of "what I hear". The sm57 gives me pretty much a decent tone, but not really all the juice that i hear when i play the amp... I realise now that that might just be the room. Anyway, A good example would be the Bush razorblade suitcase album. There's some fizz and livelyness that the sm57 refuses to capture... and I tried all placements... So i thought i would go with the large condensor likjethe AT 4033... don't know the sm81 (yet) Am i on the right track?

Glenn

 

[Farview]

use the '57 and the 421 at the same time. mix to taste.

 

[boingoman]

As far as the technique, yes. If you place the mic in the place where you like the sound, you are hearing the interaction of the amp and the room. And I think you are saying that you want to capture that sound as accurately as possible, and that's why you want an "uncolored" mic. The SM-81 DJL suggested would be a good choice, as would the 4033. The 81 might capture a bit more accurately, being a small diaphragm mic, depending on the distance. An omni of some kind would probably be better, as it would capture reflections from all directions, which is what you are hearing. The behringer has pretty high self-noise, which doesn't work well on relatively quiet sources. An amp will probably be loud enough, though.

 

[mixsit]

I'd try the electret as it may be the most neutral, assuming it doesn't have the low end slope like the dynamics.
It can go anywhere from several inches on out. Up in the first few feet you will get a strong phase-tone effect as they are mixed if they are at similar volumes, at little less so farther out. Move it about, and pick the combined tone.
Wayne

 

[Farview]

Don't forget also that what you hear in the room while you are playing, is a combination of what you are playing and what you are feeling (or imagining) What you listen back to will not hold the same emotion. I have seen a lot of people chase their tail.

 

[guhlenn]

thanks for all your comments. First to Farview; I realise that i might be trying for a tone that is ONLY in my head, but then again lots of people get better tone so I must be doing something wrong. I find the the 421 and 57 don't mix well together. I like both alone, but in the mix they don;t come out right... might be my placement though...

Mixsit; i tried the electret and while in the neafield it makes the sm57 a little more detailed and prominent, it doesn't add what i want it too. I tried a a 22 watt mesa tube as well as the big marshall thing, but both tended to have the same problem; the sound had relative few dynamics and felt somewhat plastic (dare i say solid state?). (I was even more dissapointed when my bandmates valvestate crappy marshall with two sm57's sounded just the way I wanted it too... )

I will try to experiment with all your suggestions (hopefully the guy that rents in my neighboorhood has those...). I guess I'm looking for that ribbon mic tone. When Harvey gerst described how it sounds I was like "damn, that's what I'm after" .... But that is waaaaay out of my league now.

I will try an e609 also.

Thank you all, will let ya know...

 

[Farview]

What type of sound are you trying to get? I know it's hard to descibe, but if you give us a hint as to what type of music or whose tone (or combination of tones) you like it would help get you moreapprpriate advise.

BTW I should have told you how to place the 57 and 421. point the 57 at where the cone meets the dust cover and point the 421 about halfway up the cone (between the dust cover and the edge) you have to line up the capsules so they are phase alligned, if they are out of phase, it sounds terrible.

Another trick would be 2 57s, 1 straight in and 1 at a 45 degree angle to the other one (mics almost touching) and reverse the phase (polarity) of one of them, mix to taste. (I put the angled 1 out of phase, but I don't think it makes a difference)

 

[guhlenn]

It's rock/metal. But since I'm recording myself for various projects I'm being picky. I like being picky btw

ANyway, the soudn I'm after is the kinda heavy but articulate. Tool sound i think is great, the aforementioned bush guitar tone too. In general i would like to record the amp and have it sound like the amp. BTW I'm not using to much gain or too little mids, It's just that the sound is somewhat dull. I need to replace my speakers though.

the placement of the sm57 was clear to me, the 421 not. I directed it straight at the cone... my issue wiht the mix of the too was not phase related more just that i though the sm soudned big and bassy, the Md soudned more detailed and in the mids... I thought that woudl make a great couple (that's why i got it..,.) but when i combined em the result was dissapointing. I will try your suggestions however.

 

[guhlenn]

It's rock/metal. But since I'm recording myself for various projects I'm being picky. I like being picky btw

ANyway, the soudn I'm after is the kinda heavy but articulate. Tool sound i think is great, the aforementioned bush guitar tone too. In general i would like to record the amp and have it sound like the amp. BTW I'm not using to much gain or too little mids, It's just that the sound is somewhat dull. I need to replace my speakers though.

the placement of the sm57 was clear to me, the 421 not. I directed it straight at the cone... my issue wiht the mix of the too was not phase related more just that i though the sm soudned big and bassy, the Md soudned more detailed and in the mids... I thought that woudl make a great couple (that's why i got it..,.) but when i combined em the result was dissapointing. I will try your suggestions however.

It'll take a while before i can post my results since i'll be [pretty busy this week and the next, just thought i let ya know that I didn;t waste your timje, i will try them out and let ya know

Thanks alot!