Falling (vocal rock)

[K-dub]

As often happens, when this old dog learns new tricks, he goes back and remixes everything with the new knowledge. I have been recently exploring various setting on Ozone 11 and some of my output of late has been, to my ears, some of the best detail I've been able to achieve EVER.

Oddly, it is a combination of going REALLY LOW on the track levels and pushing the Ozone limiter up a bit. I'm talking levels on the DAW tracks in the -30 to -40 db range. I remember reading something from Joe Chiccarelli at one point and he indicated that's where he tended to operate. At the time, I was thinking: "How does he even hear anything down that far?"

Turns out, I'm a convert. Details appear when things are turned down that far. Then the limiter brings the details forward. The guitars on this are in the -30 range (-29.5 to be exact). The bass is -35.5db. Less sonic "crowding" seems to occur.

The vocals, btw ... occur in the -14 range - but that's because they're big ass vocals and are featured.

The point is how far back I've dialed MOST of the mix and how pushing the limiter on O11 brings out depth and clarity that has really improved (to my mind) the cohesiveness of the mix while retaining detail - and I don't think it sounds like it is too limited - which it does seems to sound like when the tracks are pushed harder (which is my point).

What do you think?

Thanks in advance for any/all comments!

 

[Nola]

To me the bass lacks "body" and is making the mix sound thin. I'd like to hear more power in the kick and snare, too. Generally just lacking in the low end, but I guess that is subjective.

 

[K-dub]

To me the bass lacks "body" and is making the mix sound thin. I'd like to hear more power in the kick and snare, too. Generally just lacking in the low end, but I guess that is subjective.

I will revisit and listen for that. Thanks for the mention!

 

[Jeffaklumpen]

Love the composition, as Nola mentioned the mix completely lacks low end. Just quickly tried doing a wide eq boost at around 80-100hz of 5-6db and it instantly sounds alot better. The track feels way to bright to my ears. Tried playing around with some EQ, with the settings on the attached image it sounded way better to my ears atleast. But other than that I feel like the mix sounds pretty good!

 

[K-dub]

Love the composition, as Nola mentioned the mix completely lacks low end. Just quickly tried doing a wide eq boost at around 80-100hz of 5-6db and it instantly sounds alot better. The track feels way to bright to my ears. Tried playing around with some EQ, with the settings on the attached image it sounded way better to my ears atleast. But other than that I feel like the mix sounds pretty good!

View attachment 149834

Awesome and thanks for that experimentation! I LOVE when solutions are suggested. I'll have to check my eq settings on it as well to see if I tried to trim mud out in that region. Thanks guy!!!

 

[Jeffaklumpen]

Awesome and thanks for that experimentation! I LOVE when solutions are suggested. I'll have to check my eq settings on it as well to see if I tried to trim mud out in that region. Thanks guy!!!

Yeah just getting that low end up a bit and maybe cut back on some of the highs will make it sound much better! Love the guitar sound on the solo by the way, great song! Keep us updated on the progress!

 

[K-dub]

Yeah just getting that low end up a bit and maybe cut back on some of the highs will make it sound much better! Love the guitar sound on the solo by the way, great song! Keep us updated on the progress!

I went back to the drawing board on it but I got distracted futzing with other details. I WILL be further playing with it based on feedback gathered here. Thanks again!

 

[K-dub]

NOLA and Jeff - so I go back and check on the overall EQ - which O11 matches up against a popular algorithm and auto-adjusts - and guess where it had taken a 2.5db cut? Yep. EXACTLY where you weren't hearing it. So much for letting the program decide!

Here is the newly fixed and futzed with version:



I think you guys nailed it. Thank you!

 

[Jeffaklumpen]

NOLA and Jeff - so I go back and check on the overall EQ - which O11 matches up against a popular algorithm and auto-adjusts - and guess where it had taken a 2.5db cut? Yep. EXACTLY where you weren't hearing it. So much for letting the program decide!

Here is the newly fixed and futzed with version:



I think you guys nailed it. Thank you!

Yeah O11 can make some strange decisions sometimes, especially if it detects the wrong genre. Did it detect it as folk or something?

I'll take another listen when I get back home

 

[Papanate]

NOLA and Jeff - so I go back and check on the overall EQ - which O11 matches up against a popular algorithm and auto-adjusts - and guess where it had taken a 2.5db cut? Yep. EXACTLY where you weren't hearing it. So much for letting the program decide!

Here is the newly fixed and futzed with version:

I think you need to get more specific on the EQ - the Mix is not very bright- the FIlter you have on the guitars is interesting - but not through the whole song - or maybe that’s a Tony Iommi Iron Man doubling? I can’t put my finger on it - but you sound like a 70s band that I can’t name.

 

[Jeffaklumpen]

I still think the mix lacks low end and is a bit to bright :/ Are you using O11 on the mix bus, how does it sound without that?

 

[K-dub]

I still think the mix lacks low end and is a bit to bright :/ Are you using O11 on the mix bus, how does it sound without that?

Interesting - because a LOT of the cream returned when I eliminated the cut in O11. I'm going to put in on a spectrum meter and see if it is lacking energy down low. Curious all the same - particularly as the comment above yours indicates they don't think the mix is bright enough.

 

[K-dub]

I think you need to get more specific on the EQ - the Mix is not very bright- the FIlter you have on the guitars is interesting - but not through the whole song - or maybe that’s a Tony Iommi Iron Man doubling? I can’t put my finger on it - but you sound like a 70s band that I can’t name.

What I've done is taken multi tracking and selectively edit it to appear left/right in section section to add "push" to the arrangement. Most of the time the guitar is stage left, but during highlighted passages, the right comes into play, sweetening the stereo image. All it is, though, is multiple tracks muting and unmuting.

 

[BorderlineProductions]

I like the song. Cannot hear the kick drum, let alone feel it. The bass part is well written and played, but has no low end: all articulation and no body. It would like a high pass filter was applied to mix going up to 200 Hz.

 

[K-dub]

This one DID (as folks surmised correctly) have a bass scoop inserted by the AI algorithm. I backed that out and made other revisions based on comments/extra ears and this is where I am with this mix:

 

[Jeffaklumpen]

I still think you can boost the low end on the bass more. Are you using a high pass filter, if so where does it start? The high end still feels to bright. Just doing a wide cut of around 4-5db at 6Khz makes it more pleasant for the ears.

 

[K-dub]

I still think you can boost the low end on the bass more. Are you using a high pass filter, if so where does it start? The high end still feels to bright. Just doing a wide cut of around 4-5db at 6Khz makes it more pleasant for the ears.

Jeebus, Jeff - you've got some fine ears there. Originally the AI mastering plug kicked down the bass w/ a -2db scoop at 200hz - and a commensurate +2db pop in the 4 - 6k range. Since a lot of the energy in this piece (elect/acoustic guitar) are in the range, I left that bump in place - while reducing the 200hz scoop to half a db. I will return and adjust some more. I DO get what you're saying and normally I don't like to boost that area that much because my own ears fatigue quickly if there's too much energy in that range. I'll post up the difference when I get a chance later. Thanks so much!!

 

[K-dub]

Updated master EQ (slightly louder as well)