Fake drums are sounding very real

  • Thread starter Thread starter Supercreep
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Man, you could do a room-within-a-room thing for way under $18k.

I built a bedroom and hallway/firedoor in my garage in 2002 for about $4500 including maybe $1500 in tools. About 150 square feet in all. And I had to frame a floor and cut in an egress window because it was to be used as a bedroom.

County Assessor valued it at $12K upon completion.
 
I use Drumkit from hell cause I don't have the means to record my kit, I ALLWAYS program it only with stuff I can play and put mistakes I have done In the MIDI track :D
It just sounds more human if there are missing ride hits here and there ;)
 
Dogman said:
I think if that works, it would be cool... :cool:
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It does work! DFHS is taking the v-drummer much more seriously and have vastly improved the interfaces. Any drum brain that puts out midi will work with DFHS or EZDrummer. However, unlike EZDrummer, DHFS do not confirm to the GM standard but they do offer drum maps (Tonntrack website) for various host applications. If you use Sonar you can run a Cal macro on the GM file that not only can convert the GM to DFHS "extended" Midi but will also copy each drum to a separate Midi track.
 
I took the plunge on EZDrummer last weekend and have been playing around with it the last couple nights.

The registration was a PITA, and it took about 4 hours for Sonar4PE to find it. After the first install Sonar couldn't find either EZ or my MIDI interface. Some usb888something-or-other file went splitsville. After I reloaded the driver Sonar would show the MIDIsport in the config box but I whatever selction I made I got an error saying "choose an option" or something to that effect. The registration itself is kinda Byzantine. I guess it's a sign of our times that drum-sampling sequencers need security.:rolleyes:

Anyways, it's pretty Kewl from what I've messed around with so far. Decent-sounding beats have been the big obstacle for me since day one. The sequences are way better than anything I can do and they're arranged in a pretty orderly fashion. The samples themselves don't sound too shabby either but a little processing helps so far.:)Tonight I put something together for "Gotta Serve Somebody" and it was quick and painless. Sounds fabulous behind the Voyager.:D

Take notes as you go though. I read somewhere the EZD files can be labeled automatically and GrooveMonkey files are supposed to include the name of the file too. If somebody can clue me in as to how to activate the naming-function automatically in Sonar4 that would be greatly appreciated.

Anybody tried the GrooveMonkey files??? The Jazz and Blues files look like they might be interesting.
 
I'm going to have to try DKFH. Sounds cool. I use Fruity Loops, and it does okay, but sometimes the bass drums and the snares sound electronic, no matter what I do. The symbols sound fine, along with a couple cowbells, etc.

But it really doesn't matter to me. If I write a good song, it'll work itself out.

A bad song can't sound better no matter how much technology you use.

A good song sounds good with almost any recording situation.

Look at that recent song "Crazy" by that guy Gnarles Barkley. The whole thing is cheap-sounding, like it was all done by Fruity Loops or even a keyboard. The music is kind of weak, but the song is really good and was a commercial success.

THAT is what matters. If your average non-musician can pick up the chorus and hum or sing it in a couple listens, you've got a good song.


No amount of technology can make you a good songwriter.
 
KaveKong said:
A bad song can't sound better no matter how much technology you use.

A good song sounds good with almost any recording situation.
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Good production values have a subliminal affect on the listener, even a novice. It's like a good play: a masterpiece performed by your neighborhood community theatre wont have the same impact as a performance by pros. If the play is DEBUTED by the local theatre, it will probably have no chance of repeat performances if the debut isnt good.

The same applies to music, you get one shot. In classical, a bad premiere performance can sink a piece you spent years working on. Even the bigshots like Beethoven and Tchaikovsky: both of their violin concertos were bombs at first.:D The audiences couldnt see past the bad performances to appreciate the pieces.

It is VERY rare that anything with crappy production values has success. The Blair Witch Project was an exception. However, the production values were the reason it was successful.:D Overall, people have been conditioned by movies, TV and music, they subliminally know the difference between good production and cable access tv, even if they cant put their finger on it.
 
But, then, how do you explain the punk movement that is still going thirty years later?

Punk was specifically a poke at the over-produced crap of the seventies, mostly funk and disco.

And what about bluegrass? Bluegrass is arguably the best country music out there (and based primarily on a live sound around one mic). It sounds great, even with the pops and scratches you hear on a record.

Violent Femmes are a successful act, and they are definitely sloppy in both performance and production. Nirvana borrowed the punk idea and was very successful.


There are women that are so beautiful that they don't need a drop of makeup. In fact, applying a ton of makeup just makes them harder to see.

Songs are like that sometimes. A good song will come through. For me, that's what it's all about: the song. That comes first.


Again, a bad song cannot be fixed by any amount of technology.
 
KaveKong said:
But, then, how do you explain the punk movement that is still going thirty years later?

Punk was specifically a poke at the over-produced crap of the seventies, mostly funk and disco.
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Well, at the time it was very much like Blair Witch. It was the THOUGHT that counted. It was new and different.
And what about bluegrass? Bluegrass is arguably the best country music out there (and based primarily on a live sound around one mic). It sounds great, even with the pops and scratches you hear on a record.
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Mainstream Bluegrass ( i.e. Ricky Scaggs, Allison Krauss etc) is very well produced. If you are talking about old-timey stuff, again its very much like Blair Witch where the low grade production MAKES it authentic.

Violent Femmes are a successful act, and they are definitely sloppy in both performance and production. Nirvana borrowed the punk idea and was very successful.
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I have never heard the Violent Femmes ( but heard of them). I would bet that they work in expensive studios like everyone else. Lo-fi doesnt equate to bad production.

If your theory was valid, this forum wouldnt exist.:D It is the marriage of music and technology that recording is all about. Even performance: why do classical people use million dollar violins?? If it is all about the song, certainly we play the best songs ever written, ones that have stood up to 200 years of scrutiny. If it was all about the song, we woud be very happy to not spend every cent we have on megabucks instruments, trust me.:o If you hear two equally good violinists, one playing a mediocre fiddle and the other playing a great one, you will think the latter is a far superior player.
 
ezDrummer

ezDrummer looks cool, but aren't you stuck using their presets? All of my drum parts are custom and need to be programmed by hand.
 
DarkFriend said:
ezDrummer looks cool, but aren't you stuck using their presets?
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Not at all. EZdrummer can be used many ways: by dragging measures, by doing it ye olde fashion way, etc. It can read standard midi files.

It comes with patterns, and they sound good. You can alter them or make your own. The patterns it comes with can also be used by other midi instruments. All you are really doing is dragging a midi file. EXdrummer is a softsynth and just plays any midi file.
 
DavidK - Thanks for the info. I guess I'm a bit "old school" and have been printing separate drums tracks for ages as WAVs rather than relying on MIDI. Not sure if it is easy enough to handle.
 
DarkFriend said:
DavidK - Thanks for the info. I guess I'm a bit "old school" and have been printing separate drums tracks for ages as WAVs rather than relying on MIDI. Not sure if it is easy enough to handle.
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I still print mine. My stuff is classical crossover and usually has a zillion tracks, so I do the drums seperately and import them in. I dont have a powerful computer.:( As for ease, its REALLY easy.:D You load ezdrummer and drag measures, thats about it. It has a mixer if you wanna mess with the room sound, and a few drum choices, but other than that it is the simplest program I have run across. And surprisingly good sounds.
 
DarkFriend said:
ezDrummer looks cool, but aren't you stuck using their presets? All of my drum parts are custom and need to be programmed by hand.
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I like ez-drummer for it's ease, and for the already made up patterns. As David said, you can make your own, and have great flexablility, but if you want to only make your own stuff up, check out DFHS. It has 5 kits, I believe, and is very customizeable. I have both, and if I am doing a click track for my acoustic drums, I like DFHS, as I can make it exactly as I want to play it a bit easier. If I want quick, and pro sounding drums, then ez-drummer is it....but they wind up sounding better than the rest of what I do....:o
 
I'm not smart enought to use any of these Drumkit From Hell softwares.

Are there any decent drum machines that sound fairly realistic? The one I'm using now is a DR-550.
 
Spin Doctor said:
I'm not smart enought to use any of these Drumkit From Hell softwares.

Are there any decent drum machines that sound fairly realistic? The one I'm using now is a DR-550.
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Using a drum machine would be like Quantam Physics compared to EZDrummer.:D Wekk, the installation/verification is a little weird, but once it is set up it is drag and drop.

I like Drum Machines too, I have owned several and still have an SR16. I use it for a metronome. Drum machines havent really kept up since it all went to software. I doubt you will find anything much better than what you have.
 
THANKS... I guess I'll check out EZ DRUMMER then.

I just hope it's EZ.
 
I hear you on this one, Supercreep. Goddamn I hear ya. It's getting harder and harder to compete with programmed drums. Maybe it IS an ego thing..."My drums sound better than yours!"

When I spend the required amount of time getting the tones I am rarely unsatisfied. I must admit I have been skimping on that recently because I think I'm SO GOOD that my awesome skillz allow me to bypass the fact that I am still recording in a dank basement. You get out what you put in. The hard part is taking the time the is required to get the tones. Impeccable tuning, deliberation on mic placement, and doing tests to hear and see (zooming in on the waveforms) what exactly is wrong.

I kind of envy the fake drum mentality in a way. They can set it and forget it. I've always had a "work with what you have" outlook on recording, which prevents me from blatantly downloading shit that actually costs a lot of money. I used to do that but I couldn't help but feel like my career in audio would never progress that way. It feels better in the end to know (or think you know!) that your recordings have a little thing called 'character'. But that's not modern (homogenized)!!! Better quit now!
 
I don't know if I already posted on this thread, but anyway....

I use Fruity Loops. It was ninety-nine bucks and it works. I just program the drums in. There is one drawback:

They don't sound very realistic. But they get the job done for cheap demos (I just record at home on the computer using cheap software).


I'm going to upgrade soon to EZ Drummer or DFHS.



I don't want to have to do a lot of learning, but some of the guys at GC told me that if I know Fruity Loops well, and understand sequencing, that I should be able to learn new software easily.


There's also Reason 3.0. You can program drums AND any other instrument like strings and piano.


I always wondered how piano would sound with punk.
 
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