Everyone join me here for a test of YOUR monitors...

  • Thread starter Thread starter tubedude
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Ethan, if there are professionals who care about 24 bits and $5000 mic pres. Before you decide you're the specialist, consider why they are professionals, and we aren't.

The same reason that when you are in highschool you know everything and the teacher/administration/parents are always wrong? :)
 
What?! you mean they aren't always wrong???:confused:

As someone posted above, I also use JBl Control 5's which I like a lot. I haven't used them in a while though cause of a blown tweeter, so I won't rate them until i get my replacement. Anyway, this test looks interesting, keep it up.

Ian
 
urei 813...crown DC300 translate 9, fatigue 9
jbl4311... crown DC150 translate 9, fatigue 7 ('cause I crank 'em:D)
yamaha ns10... crown DC150 translate 5, fatigue 34.25
auratone 5c ... alesisRA100 translate 10, fatigue 0
 
OK so I am the proud owner of two shiny Sony speakers that came with the stereo box. yeah even set em to flat setting, really vintage pieces of gear. They are powered by, uh, next question...oh yeah fatigue, huh, no none of that, never...

So my ratings, this should be tough...
Translation---> -12.86
Amp---> hummm, n/a, yeah that looks nice
Fatigue---> say again...oh, -5.77

Well in all seriousness, my next paycheck (Mar 2) is almost totaly dedicated to getting a pair of Tannoy Reveals and a Hafler TA1100, unless of course this wonderful test points in another direction...glad my results will be of SO much help.



Laj
 
A little astray, but...

I'm still searching: Yorkville YSM1p's at MusiciansBuy.com $449
Behringer Truth just about anywhere $400.

Is this a no-brainer?:confused:
 
Kristian,

> Ethan, if there are professionals who care about 24 bits and $5000 mic pres. Before you decide you're the specialist, consider why they are professionals, and we aren't. <

Speak for yourself. I've been an audio professional since the late 1960s.

I don't dispute that 24 bits is better technically than 16. If I were recording an orchestra or string quartet I'd consider using 24 bits to allow recording at a level low enough to handle an unexpectedly high volume during the performance, while still maintaining a low noise floor. But for modern pop music recorded at sensible volumes, the difference between 16 and 24 bits affects content that's 80-90 dB. below the level of the program material. And that is pretty well inaudible!

The real issues are:

1. 16 bits can sound excellent if you know what you're doing.

2. 24 bits requires half again more computing power and disk space, thus reducing the number of tracks you can have for any given computer and hard drive.

3. The real problem facing most amateur recordists is learning how to get a good sound into the mikes to begin with, and how to use the various effects at their disposal.

--Ethan
 
yamaha msp5s here.
translation = couldn't tell, haven't done a single mixdown on it yet
fatigue = 7 i get a lot more fatigue when i have to carry the little fuggers around to track drums at a friends place.

adriano
 
postal blue...

Tell the drummer to buy his own damn monitors! ;)

Ethan...

I will respectfully disagree with your position on 16 vs 24 bit. Although only a few years into digital recording I've also been doing this for years...but not quite since 60'...:D

I have heard direct 16 vs 24 bit comparisons and notice a substantial difference between the two...

Now... 44.1 vs 48 vs 96 sample rates I believe yield a bit less of a difference......

I let my ears decide and for me - 24 bit was a clear winner.

peace,

zip >>
 
zip,

actually my recording gear is not only mine, it belongs to my band, at least most of it does. and we're tracking at a friend's practice space where there are yamaha ns10s, which i'm not too familiar with, so i have to carry the whole setup with me everytime.:( gotta make me a few cases to avoid nicking and scratching the shit out of my stuff, if not worse. to top it off, we have to take our own drum kit, since the one my friend has is crap.
 
I was only kidding with ya but I do know what you mean...

I used to carry my compressor to band practices / gigs...I went out and bought a SKB case quickly! :D

zip >>
 
i know you were kidding, man, relax. :)
the worst thing about having to haul the whole paraphernalia is that i'm scared to death of damaging my computer's hd when riding on my car (it gets a little bumpy sometimes).

adriano
 
Yeah...I bet. I've got some friends in Brazil...I've heard about the driving there...........:eek: :eek: :eek:
 
zip,

> I have heard direct 16 vs 24 bit comparisons and notice a substantial difference between the two... <

I can accept that, but I'd sure like to know more details about the comparisons you made. I could see how there'd be a difference if the recording level was -20 or lower. Or, as in one test I read of, a reverb tail was recorded and when it had died out to -60 dB. or so they turned up the gain in the mixer to make the tail audible. But in my own experience, when recording at normal levels at 16 bits with good equipment there is no meaningful loss in quality from source to playback.

I'll also mention that the type of test is important. I know of one test where they had a singer sing into a microphone and recorded it at 16 bits. Then they switched the converter to 24 bits and recorded a different performance of the same singer singing again. I reject that type of test as completely invalid. The only scientific way to test 16 bits versus 24 is to record the exact same source material onto both mediums, and then have a double-blind listening comparison.

--Ethan
 
16 vs 24-bit

What's the point in comparing? 24-bit is very accessible these days...might as well take advantage of whatever there is to gain from it, up until you dither down to 16-bit.

BTW, here's an interesting comparison:

http://archive.keyboardonline.com/features/bitwars/bitwars.shtml

I got 4/5 back when I didn't have proper monitoring equipment, so I'd say 24-bit makes a difference.
 
Interesting...

I'll take a listen.

Ethan...

As a scientist by training I can appreciate your position on double-blind testing. I also agree completely with what you said about a true comparison. I did not do that however...who has time? ;)

zip >>
 
yeah...the comparision was interesting, but did you read on? What I got from the test responses where that the "blindfolded" people could sometimes tell a difference, but sometimes changed their minds on what they had just heard when listening to the same thing again. Additionally, the consensus seems that although the "golden ears" could hear the difference, even after converted back to 16/44.1, there was no conclusion which sounded best...just different. Personally, when details are so small like that, the humidity of the day effects the aural response more, imo;) . I feel laboring over sonic details so small like these, is like spinning your wheels after that last .1%, when better effort should just be given to other more important items, such as mic technique, performance, arrangements, optimizing signal paths with correct gain structure, writing, and of course, picking and drinking the "correct" beer:p I believe mic selection is starting to approach that arena also, when used in home studios with "consumer" quality playback systems. Yeah..there's a difference, but you gotta be toooo anal, if that becomes your goal, rather than the music, itself.

oh..btw, I listened to the clips back on my urei 813c's and jbl4311's, at decent levels, and felt the differences were too insignificant to worry about. If you can hear it, and think it makes a BIG difference...hey go for.

One advantage of recording at 24 bit, I will give, is for processing...after several "alterings thru processing", the track is best left at 24bit...then converted AT THE END...but we all know that...right:D
 
1. Yamaha MSP5. I guess they're the powered equivalent of the NS-10: If your mix sounds good on them, it'll sound good about anywhere! Translation- 6, Fatigue- 6, Overall- 7.

2. Audix Studio 3A. These are powered by a Crown D-60. I've never heard a more honest pair of monitors in their price range.
Translation- 8, Fatigue- 8, Overall- 9
 
Mixmkr......

Only read parts of it and haven't listened to the files yet...

Maybe another reason folks rave about 24 bit is the quality of the A/D converters on the cards / systems vs. the ones on a 16 bit SB card....

They are led to believe the 24 bit system is better when in fact the converters are better...

food for thought.......

zip >>
 
Re: Interesting...

Zip,

> As a scientist by training I can appreciate your position on double-blind testing. I also agree completely with what you said about a true comparison. I did not do that however...who has time? ;) <

Then you are merely guessing!

Also, in your tests, was the same performance recorded at 16 and 24 bits at the same time? Or were they different performances? That is probably more important than anything else.

> Maybe another reason folks rave about 24 bit is the quality of the A/D converters on the cards / systems vs. the ones on a 16 bit SB card. ... They are led to believe the 24 bit system is better when in fact the converters are better... <

Yes, exactly.

--Ethan
 
Ethan...

It was in a studio and I believe it was the same performance. I didn't conduct the test so I'm not positive. I just watched as the engineer wizzed around.... :D
 
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