Everyone is gonna hate me

  • Thread starter Thread starter miker73
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Bvaleria,

First of all, I would not say most big name recordings sound very good. Apart from the usual annoyance of too much compression, everything just sounds too much the SAME. Uniformity is a fundamental wrong in my opinion.

Secondly, I don’t know what that 'different sound' is. All I know is I’m tired of the status quo. This is what I’m encouraging people to fight against.

So you like the sound of big studio recordings? Fine by me. But, does that mean you have to mimic them? I would bet Picasso looked up to Leonardo and Rembrandt. Does that mean he shouldn’t have developed cubism?

For very little money we have at our disposal these days equipment whose specifications leave 20 year old equipment in the dust. Do you know of any great recordings made 20 years ago? 30 years ago? Of course you do! The tools are here. We just need to figure out innovative ways of using it.

barefoot
 
rev,

I'm working on room treatment right now, as well as picking up some new Near-Fields ( my Paradigm home-speakers are ceasing to cut it )

The compression in Audiodesk ain't too grand ( I just haven't heard a plug-in or digital compressor that I like ), but, of course they're still better than the 3630. The only thing I tend to compress is vocals, kick ,snare and bass. I leave everything else alone pretty much, and I tend to get basic guitar sounds to tape how I like them. Overly compressing guitar makes me nauseous. I'm getting your point here, though. I'll be trying some new stuff tonight.

thanks again for your input

Barefoot-- as far as current gear "leaving 20 year old gear in the dust" I would have to disagree on some counts. But, your basic point is taken. I don't want to mimic, I just want to keep going until I'm satisfied and think that my recordings are fair to the bands being represented ( mostly my own band, but others as well )
 
Barefoot...

SO... you think the idea is to throw away good recording technique in favour of a DIY, whatever goes, use HOSA cable on everything attitude??? :eek:

OK... whatever dude....

Incidently, the big boys who know what they are doing are not doing the overcompression, loud is better thing... they're just as upset about it as anyone else....

But hey - do your thing, I'll do mine... so far, my clients haven't been complaining....

Cheers
Bruce :D
 
I think an important thing, that no one seems to mention much is the room your recording in. Doesn't matter what mic's/preamps/outboard gear, if the room sounds like shit - well it's just one more obstacle for us homerecorder's to battle. A lot of the 'space' I hear in recordings is easily identifiable as the room it was recorded in, not the digital signal processor, not a neve preamp or megabucks cabling. I record in a small room with poor acoustics, I do know how it translates, and do my best to work around it or at least make the end product somewhat listenable.

miker73:

My attitude is pretty much, try and make the best of what you have, and have fun. Priority being songs and then usually performance. If it stops being fun or interesting, it's time to move on to something else. The amount of interest in this art of recording, from hobbiest to pro, is evident on this BBS. So many people here to learn and help. Hardly anyone I know is doing recording, either on a hobby level or pro level, but I do know lots of people who spend their lives watching TV or hanging out in bars. Music and recording is a unique hobby, or profession, and it's a lot of fun. Challenging both artistically, and technically. Who could ask for more?
 
"so, what do you think??????"

I think there's some mixing you can always do yourself - trimming and fades, panning, reverb, levels. When it comes to EQ and compression, maybe a studio can do it better than you, but I'd be willing to wager there are homerecordists on this board who really enjoy mixing and so understand what's involved and therefore get decent results. Well I know there are - I've heard some stuff in the mp3 clinic here which, at first listen, sounds pro or close enough to satisfy public ears. As for mastering, yeah let someone else do it.

Emeric - I'd put writing and performing on the same level of importance - they just come at different stages of the process.

John and Barefoot - aren't you two talking about different things? John's talking about getting a *clean* recording, and Barefoot's talking about getting a different sound.
 
Dobro... it's Bruce (not John) and that's kinda what I was trying to get at - Barefoot wasn't really specifying what was meant by "a different sound".

Bruce
 
Lots of great ideas and discussions going on here, but here's my 2 cents to Mike.

Get that RNC. For under $200 it's the single best thing I own.

For monitors: If you already have an amp check out Yorkville ysm-1's. They're kind of an unkown pair of speakers (even on this bbs which always knows the new hot gear), and they only cost about $220 a pair!

For compressing within the computer check out Renaisance Waves Compressor. Good smooth compression. The downside is that they use A LOT of cpu power. I guess that's what it takes to get it that good though.

Good luck!
 
Here we go!

I was wondering how long this discussion could remain philosophical...
 
Sorry, Bruce - all you engineers look the same to me. Except for the dashingly handsome Sonusman, of course, but he's the exception that proves the rule. :D
 
dobro,

We do seem to be speaking different languages. Bvaleria suggested I wanted to “throw away good recording technique”. This is a very dogmatic statement in my opinion. Good technique is in the eyes of the beholder. The orthodox will always look on new ideas and new methods with contempt, long after they find themselves quite obsolete.

Given the current state of technology, there is no reason why someone with a home studio cannot achieve “clean sound”. However, big studio sound is obviously the result of a very complex and sophisticated recipe, probably not in the reach of any individual with limited resources. But, we don’t need to follow their recipe. Rules are made to be broken. In fact, when new technologies allow, the rules often beg to be broken.

Mantra – Learn the rules then break them. Learn the rules then break them. Learn the rules then break them.

barefoot
 
Barefoot

OK... that's just peachy....... you're all "break the rules" attitude, but you never mention anything about what that means in practical terms............ hey, I'm for innovation - just make sure you fully understand WHY some technique is necessary before you decide it can be broken..........

SO...... put your money where your mouth is - give me something practical to demonstrate your point!

Bruce
 
Hi John.....er....Bruce! This has nuthin' to do with this topic but I finally got my RNC 2-day! I'll give it a go this weekend!
 
barefoot

I'm intersted in what yo think "breaking the rules" is...engineers for years have been "breaking the rules"..but making good recordings at the same time..

a "new sound" (different sound maybe??) How "new/different" can you get when recording music? I dont think all big studio records sound the same, most of them sound different to me. Now when your talking about unoriginal music (ie Blink 182 or some shit like that), yeah it's all gonna sound the same...I'm just streaming here, forgive me is this doesnt make sense.



ametth
 
breaking the rules

most of this, IMO, applies to techniques, not sounds.
As home/hobbyist/prosumer engineers we are forced to apply techniques to achieve "good" sounds to gear that isn't always pro level.
I think that's the crux of the argument here.
I"m not gonna pioneer a shitty snare sound and say I'm "breaking the rules". I'm gonna find out how to get that snare to sound good on the gear I have.
To me, that's breaking the rules.
Know your limitations and do your absolute best to exceed those.
I've taken average bands and MADE them sound better, not great, but better ( through driving them like a bastard and through much editing on my DAW : )
Most ( not all, mind you ) commercial, radio recordings sound good. A few actually sound great ( Sting comes to mind )
I think I got off track somewhere.......
 
MISTERQCUE said:
Hi John.....er....Bruce! This has nuthin' to do with this topic but I finally got my RNC 2-day! I'll give it a go this weekend!
Click to expand...
Cool!!! Ya know, everytime I use mine on something, I'm just awestruck on how good it sounds....... you're gonna LOVE it!

:)
 
Emeric said:
I but I do know lots of people who spend their lives watching TV or hanging out in bars
Click to expand...

Hey that sounds like a cool way of life. I would do it myself ....if I only knew how to pay the bills in the process.

If somebody mentioned compressors here then if any of you own the ART levelar.
I would suggest you check out a modification a guy in Canada does to it for $140 and turns it into a excellent transparent compressor. Truly amazing work !.
 
I'm kinda with Barefoot on this one, especially since he's said he's keeping up the quality of the sound. I hear lotsa people talking about mastering and such in order to 'get that sound' - that sort of slick radio-ready compressed and cosmetic slickness that only expensive gear and knowhow can get you. And of course, if you're interested in getting your song onto radio, then by all means make it sound like the kind of thing radio people recognize and approve of. But one thing I KNOW about art is that most of the people most of the time COPY known, tried-and-true formulas. Yet if you do that, you don't get real art so much as fad and fashion.

On the other hand, I think it's the songwriting and the performance that hold the main key to good art in this case - the way you record it, so long as the quality's there, is secondary.
 
I just sat through one of those recent Hollywood horrors or whatever. Can't remember the name, but it's about a house haunted by some dude with huge sideburns whose wife comes back to send him to hell and free the murdeered children.

Anyway, great f/x,but I got bored fast and wandered. I started to consider teh movie's production and realized that it was everything I did NOT want done to not just the music I play, but any music I happen to be listening to. Scrapping Wavelab and the few standalones I've recently picked up did occur to me, but then I called myself an asshole. Still...

I like the Excorsist, not the Haunting
The Three Stooges, not Friends
Fuck JAG, give me Barney Miller

But it's not so easy with music. A lot of good songs are being put out, all nice and polished and just begging to be spit on, but not all deserving it. I guess it must be similar to the curses aimed at Dylan when he decided to plug in. I dunno, but I do know that too many recording toys sometimes makes Vurt a dull boy (musically). But hey, have you ever wondered what a Beatles/Radiohead collaboration would sound like?
 
i dunno if this makes sense to you guys, but a 'not so clean' recording can sound good too. I'm into what ever kind of heavy music, and i noticed that the first albums of a band almost always sound better than the later slicker cleaner whatever-you-wanna-call-it productions.
call it emotion or something but the first ones are alive and in your face, which cannot be said for later recordings. Now i know shit about big studios and am not saying they are bad or so... but couldn't it be that every type of music needsa different aproach?

example; listen to the first Korn album and follow the leader. (sorry bout pickin' korn but it's in fashion now so most people will know 'm) i think the sound on the first album, although full of noise sounds damn better than the later 'radio-friendly' follow the leader.

ah well, i'm a dumb guitar player -don't mind me-
;)

guhlenn
 
guhlenn said:
call it emotion or something but the first ones are alive
Click to expand...

Good point. I call it character. Some bands have been able to hang on to it over a few releases, each of which became more produced, but I agree with you for the most part. Maybe for different reasons though. I think the studio becomes a crutch for a lot of bands, something that they keep in the front of their minds when writing songs. You start doing that and you've screwed yourself. Keep the songs your main priority and they'll sound good through soup cans or million dollar machines.

Adam
 
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