Everyone is gonna hate me

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miker73

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So, I've been reading this board for awhile, and not posting too much, but I thought this might be an interesting topic of discussion.
I'm in a band, and have been for about 6 years. We have 3 independent releases and have recorded some ourselves, some with "professionals" and also mixed some of the material ourselves and some with the aforementioned "professionals".
So, here's my thoughts on it:
If you do not have the gear and the facilities, getting a "quality" ( i.e., "radio-playable ) mix is just damn-near impossible.
Tracking has not been a problem for us. I've taken our tracks ( recorded in our project studio on a MOTU 2408 rig ) to an SSL-equipped "real" studio and they've stood up. They've also been turned into some damn fine mixes.
Oftentimes, on this board, I hear discussions where people are attempting the impossible. If you want to stand up next to the "big boys", you have to be willing to shell out the cash ( and , dammit, I hate that it comes down to money ) to play in that league.
On the upside, though, It's been my experience that you can get good tracks in a "project" or "semi-pro" studio. And I think that good tracks mean good performances and good songs as well as attention to the sonic details.
It's just always come down to taking it to a "real" facility to mix and to be happy with it. And this hasn't come without trying in our studio.

Anyone think I'm full of shit here?
Anyone had similar experiences?

thanks for reading....
 
I really thinks it depends on what the scope of the "home studio" is...mine for instance has many things that you would find in a studio costing 1000's a day. But I think the most improtant thing is the ABILITY and TALENT of the engineer. There are people (even on this board) that can go amazing work with very inexpensive (most pro's think it's cehap and unuseable) tools. I have more to say, but no time. Maybe later.
 
home sweet home

I agree with alot of what you say, but i just don't think about it too much. Afew years ago it was almost impossible to get a good recording at home, now that has changed. And alot of recordings made years ago didn't sound that good either. I can walk down my hallway and turn left and go to the bathroom, turn right and start recording, all day and all night, and for that i'll give up a little quality and s/n. A half decent recording beats the crap out of NO recording anytime.
 
experience

I've been recording in my basement studio for about 4 years and I know there's alot of topics that are important, but one thing I've found is "attitude" not "altitude" makes a difference in a recording session. If the band comes in coping an altitude (rock star syndrome), little will get done and it'll sound crappy. If they come in alittle nervous, but ready to work, then everything gets done and everyone walks out a winner.
Half has to come from the band and half has to come from the person behind the console.
Steve...
 
Look, there’s a good many tiers between the walls of this BBS, I’d say. I’d also say that your concerns are known throughout a few of them, actually. From that perspective, I might feel differently, but right now I’m just in it for the release and good time. And you know what? I really, really like our songs, and I’m starting to feel like they’re getting what they deserve.

that makes me happy...

Adam
 
Vurt

That is what matters the most.
The song.
And I agree about the bullshit "rock star" attitude as well. I've recorded quite a few other bands in our studio, and the best recordings always come from the bands that are willing to work and LISTEN and admit that maybe their songs could be improved and have an open mind.
I hope no one thinks I'm trying to be insulting.
I'm definitely NOT.
thanks.
 
one more thing.

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/0/spilling_poetry.html

"Freeway","Never What You Need" and "Human Trampoline" were mixed by someone else.

"Stumbling" is a demo version of the song that we mixed.

I guess that's the difference I'm talking about.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks to all, this is the only board I've ever participated in, and I'm glad I did.
 
Okay I hate you, but not because of your music or anything discussed here. I just love to hate and when someone like yourself comes along and almost asks to be hated, I'm more than willing to oblige. Now are you happy?:)
 
Oh I don't think you asked for anything except some comments from people on this board with similar expectations from their recordings. Those of us with more modest equipment, talent, or time may want to interject though just to justify ourselves :)

I doubt if you actually offended anyone.
 
thanks, Vurt, because that certainly wasn't my intent.
Just for the record, I think with even "modest" gear great recordings ( tracks, mixing is another matter ) can be had ( skimping on time or "talent", though, makes a good recording pretty difficult, IMHO )-- a badly arranged songs, or musicians who just can't play, these are things that all the gear in the world can't fix.

thanks again
 
If you can’t beat them at their game, invent your own game!

You’re not going to make your home studio sound like a million dollar professional studio, just the same way you’re never going build a Honda Accord in your garage. But why would you want to anyway? F-ck the “Big Boys”! Isn’t everyone tired of that same old shit?

Invent a new sound!

barefoot
 
Barefoot....

*choke* ...and what would that "new sound" be - noisy, badly-recorded tracks????????????? You're tired of clean sound and transparent mixes????

What makes you think you can't "make your own sound" at the downtown studios?? Of course, you can, only it'll be cleaner and better recorded.............

You *CAN* make very professional recordings in your home studio, IF you know what you're doing and IF you know your limitations (and assuming you're not trying to get blood from a stone using a PortaStudio...) You pay attention to signal chain, and don't buy crap gear thinking it's "just as good".

Professional-sounding recordings are a result of proper recording techniques, respectable gear, and an engineer with good ears and good attitude. Whether that happens at the downtown studios or your basement is completely up to you.

It's not the "big-boys vs. home recording", (if it is, it shouldn't be) - it's "what home-recordists can learn from the big boys" that makes the difference....

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
Bruce- much agreed

I guess that's just it, knowing your limitations.
That's incredibly tough for me, because I KNOW ( don't we all? ) that every time I record I learn something new, and the next time, it's gonna be better. And that's what it all amounts to anyway, just getting better.

Again, it's all about the song. The better the recording, the better your song is represented, and I want my stuff to be as good as it possibly can ( this, of course, is stating the obvious )

take care

Michael
 
miker73,

You should study the mixes that were mixed by the other engineers. If I understand you correctly ALL of the tracking was done at your project studio (even for the outside-mixed tracks). Given that fact, the hardest part of the work has been done (the music). Mixing is just an enhancement of what's already there. Your demo mix of "Stumbling" wasn't that far off. The "difference" in your mixes and the outside mixes seem to fall in two major areas: Compression and Equalization. The outside mixer seems to make better use of compression/limiting than your demo mix. Also, the equalization on the outside mix is more "clear"; the "low-end" is more focused (not muddy) in their mixes... the high end is crisp, not brittle. Even though there's a lot going on, you can still hear everything pretty good. There are s few other minor areas, like skillful use of effects and reverb in particular, but you guys are not that far off, because the musicianship has already "made" the recording.

Still, if you want "that" sound and can't get it, then I see not good reason to not pay someone else who can get the sound. BTW, I liked the tunes "Human Trampoline" and "Never What You Need". I think that these two tunes are very "radio-ready" and have much commercial appeal. If your band markets this right, you should be able to get a lot of mileage out of this record.

Rev E
 
Rev,

Thanks for listening.

I think you're right about the 2 biggies ( comp & EQ )
Particularly, we've had alot of trouble with mixing low-end in our room ( it's not the greatest monitoring situation ). Also, I'm gonna mess with the compression on it as well, and see what can be done.
I really love tracking, but mixing is SO frustrating for me.--2 hardest instruments in the mix for me, snare drum and bass guitar---AHHHHH!!!
Our singer seems to have a much better ear for mixing than I do, but, like everyone else here, I keep learning new things.
I really appreciate your input, and thanks for the kind words.

Michael
 
I'm amazed that almost no one except Rev E has actually addressed your question. This board is loaded with free spirits who want to do the whole thing front to back - write, record, mix, master, distribute, and be the bouncer at their gigs. I accept that you're finding it difficult to match the mixes that engineers can get. I've got two questions about this. First, you don't distinguish between mixing and mastering - are you lumping them together here? Second (and this is as much for others as for you), does this difficulty arise because you don't spend as much time mixing as you do playing and tracking (ie experience), or because you don't have the gear that puts that hi-wax polish on the final shine? It's gotta be one or both.
 
dobro--
I'd say it's definitely BOTH.
More time is spent tracking ( and writing ), and that could have a LOT to do with it.
As far as gear, we're fairly limited ( MOTU 2408 on a Mac, Mackie 1604VLZ, and the dreaded 3630--I know, I know, I'm getting an RNC really soon ) Most of our processing is done in Audiodesk and I EQ to "tape" ( I still say "tape" ).

Our first two releases, we did do "front to back". Record, mix, "master", distribute, the whole deal. But, we felt it neccessary to improve with each release and after the second, we felt like we'd hit the ceiling of what we were capable of on our own.

As far as mastering, one of the tracks was mastered at Bernie Grundman (sp??) and two of them were mastered at a mid-level facility here in Texas.
Mastering is probably a whole other thread in itself ( this is something that, again, I don't think you can do at home, unless you have an immaculate listening environment ) Sure, you can run the whole thing through some L-1 Plug-in, and, yeah it's LOUDER, but it's still lacking that shine. Mastering is a complete mystery to me.

so, what do you think??????
 
Miker73,

Just for clarity, when I mentioned Compression and EQ, I was referring to compression of certain individual channels during mixdown. I just reread my post and wanted to make sure that I got my point over.

It seems to me that with better use of your internal software effects, you should be able to get closer without too much pricey outboard gear. If you don't have any good effects, even $150 spent on the low-end TC Electronics Native Reverb,EQ, Compressor would do wonders for your sound (if used skillfully). You didn't say if you had any real-time effects, so I make no assumptions. Also, you may want to look into some acoustical room treatments so that your sound is atleast mixable in your project space.



Rev E
 
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