Thunder33
New member
Scudr4 said:
and how do you feel now?
and how do you feel now?
Nick98338
New member
IMHO, it's really what you want your final product to be. I, for one, have been happy with my own mastering. The final CDs I make are just fine. No, they are not "big studio" quality. Don't need that. My customers are not expecting super high quality. They don't want Nashville. They want the sound of the group I'm recording.
Ford, check your French... it's voila
Ford, check your French... it's voila
Thunder33
New member
Nick98338 said:IMHO, it's really what you want your final product to be. I, for one, have been happy with my own mastering. The final CDs I make are just fine. No, they are not "big studio" quality. Don't need that. My customers are not expecting super high quality. They don't want Nashville. They want the sound of the group I'm recording.
Ford, check your French... it's voila
That is pretty much my thought on it as well. But, that means that you are not asking people here how to master. You see, this post is not for people like you and Ford who know how to get it done. If someone is asking how to do it, then they probably have no clue as to what mastering even is. I know when I first started recording, I didn't even hear the word "mastering" until I was a year into it. That is when I found out that I really knew nothing. So I hit the books, internet, and any studio that would let me hang out and free load.
I am not saying that you have to pay shit tons of money to get your stuff mastered. I am saying that if you have no clue, then you are not going to learn over night. Do a search for mastering here and see how much actual information you learn. Then go Google it and see how much you learn. What you learn is that it takes the right tools and the right knowledge.
I am all for doing it yourself. I have some software that is viable to get some decent mastering done and I have played with it a lot (the software too) but I am a far cry from being close to calling what I do, "mastering"
This article is basically one of the thousands that are out there that try to explain that. BUt I think I said above, if you can do it yourself and make it sound how you want it to sound.....that is all that matters.
S
Scudr4
New member
Thunder33 said:
well...I think If you are going PRO you need to hand out some cash to a label. But if u plan on selling less then 999 cds or less some dude in a house with about 2k of stuff should do fine.
just my 2 cents
Treeline
New member
Is this the part where somebody asks what the best cheap mastering software is and is there any way they can get it free? 
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm still at the questionable polishing stage of things...
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm still at the questionable polishing stage of things...
Dogman
Unkle Ticklefingers
My $1.85...If you are a home musician/recorder type dude...do it yourself. Learn your equipement. Keep it fun. You want pro results, maybe talk to one of the dudes that posts here about getting your stuff to sound better. There are many options to pursue. I want to learn to do it all myself, for the fun factor. Music for me is just an outlet. No one is going to buy my music. I do this to learn and have fun. If I was going to really sell it, and thought it was of that caliber, I'd talk to guys here about helping me...and I'd be willing to pay for that help.
Now, back to normal life...I got cold beer waiting. Later dudes...
Now, back to normal life...I got cold beer waiting. Later dudes...
pingu
New member
Ill buy your music.
pingu
New member
It was established that pro results can be obtained buy guys without billion dollar setups in a little experiment called WIMP.
Do a search at psw for more details.
But the gist of it was this.
A few guys mastered the same song but the rule was that you were not allowed to use a piece pf gear that was valued more than 2000 bucks.
Bob Katz also participated in the exercise.
It basically proved that it is the engineer and not the gear.
I think a few of the guys used waves masters bundle.
Do a search at psw for more details.
But the gist of it was this.
A few guys mastered the same song but the rule was that you were not allowed to use a piece pf gear that was valued more than 2000 bucks.
Bob Katz also participated in the exercise.
It basically proved that it is the engineer and not the gear.
I think a few of the guys used waves masters bundle.
Thunder33
New member
pingu said:
okay, you do realize the most of the people who come here probably don't have $2000 in their entire set up, right? lol
And it IS the engineer. But again, coming in here and asking "how do I master?" is not going to put you in the same catagory with Bob Katz anytime soon. You know?
S
Synkrotron
New member
great thread... I'm taking it all in 
Thunder33
New member
Synkrotron said:great thread... I'm taking it all in
very cool, that was the point. I am not preaching to send everything to a mastering house. I just wanted to see some intelligent discussion on it. And I have. Except for Ford Van's because I can't see what he writes. But I am sure it is intelligent, even if it is filled with frustration and hate.
S
songsj
Member
I love this thread because Mastering [ as well as mixing ] is what I am struggling with right now. I track on a Tascam 2488 and export/import 24 bit .wav files into Vegas 6 for mixing. I have the standard Vegas plugins as well as some freeware [ SIR reverbs, etc. ] I think the bottom line IMHO is that there is at least some merit to almost everything stated so far.
In a perfect world we all would be great tracking engineers which would make our mixing lives sooo much easier, fun, and allow us the time to really work on balancing our track levels and play with FX etc. to achieve great, emotional mixes. Unfortunately most of us usually end up with at least some if not a lot of tracks that are less than great from the start, and the headaches begin. We end up having to Compress and eq the shit out of some things just to make them listenable and barely fit into the mix without washing everything else out or stick out like a sore thumb. We end up making a lot of those " Compromises " talked about in the mastering article at the mixing stage. While this may be our only option at that point [ short of retracking which is not always possible ] we are painting ourselves into a corner at an early stage. Those of you who are great tracking engineers know what I'm talking about and those who are not, can choose whether or not to believe this. There is only so much you can do with tracks that are marginally recorded. There also is only so much you can do with the type of set ups most of us have. Some musical arrangements and styles in general are by nature easier to record /mix/master. Some things that I have noticed, which I guess are pretty obvious are that the more you got going on at one time in the mix, the more complicated it becomes. Digital pianos and strings can record great but you really need to get very close to the sound you want
in the end when tracking. Live drum kits either have to sound great accoustically or be well isolated [ sometimes both]to even have a chance at sounding like a pro kit cut in a pro studio. Even though you can do a lot with less than perfect vocals, there still is no substitute for a killer vocal.
I once worked with a singer in a pro studio that started asking about editing, auto-tune, delay, reveb etc before she ever sang a note. I told her " Its just a recording studio, if you didn't bring it with you, you're not going to leave with it '. LOL In summary, most of us want those cd's that sound like the ones we buy in the store. Easier said than done, I do not know the secret because I do not believe there is one silver bullet that will cure all. I have to admit I am totally stumped as to how the pros get their CD's [ Country ballads] to sound so loud and yet at the same time so open and airy with great seperation. Thats where my quest lies. Good luck everyone
In a perfect world we all would be great tracking engineers which would make our mixing lives sooo much easier, fun, and allow us the time to really work on balancing our track levels and play with FX etc. to achieve great, emotional mixes. Unfortunately most of us usually end up with at least some if not a lot of tracks that are less than great from the start, and the headaches begin. We end up having to Compress and eq the shit out of some things just to make them listenable and barely fit into the mix without washing everything else out or stick out like a sore thumb. We end up making a lot of those " Compromises " talked about in the mastering article at the mixing stage. While this may be our only option at that point [ short of retracking which is not always possible ] we are painting ourselves into a corner at an early stage. Those of you who are great tracking engineers know what I'm talking about and those who are not, can choose whether or not to believe this. There is only so much you can do with tracks that are marginally recorded. There also is only so much you can do with the type of set ups most of us have. Some musical arrangements and styles in general are by nature easier to record /mix/master. Some things that I have noticed, which I guess are pretty obvious are that the more you got going on at one time in the mix, the more complicated it becomes. Digital pianos and strings can record great but you really need to get very close to the sound you want
in the end when tracking. Live drum kits either have to sound great accoustically or be well isolated [ sometimes both]to even have a chance at sounding like a pro kit cut in a pro studio. Even though you can do a lot with less than perfect vocals, there still is no substitute for a killer vocal.
I once worked with a singer in a pro studio that started asking about editing, auto-tune, delay, reveb etc before she ever sang a note. I told her " Its just a recording studio, if you didn't bring it with you, you're not going to leave with it '. LOL In summary, most of us want those cd's that sound like the ones we buy in the store. Easier said than done, I do not know the secret because I do not believe there is one silver bullet that will cure all. I have to admit I am totally stumped as to how the pros get their CD's [ Country ballads] to sound so loud and yet at the same time so open and airy with great seperation. Thats where my quest lies. Good luck everyone
bblackwood
Senior Moment
Hiring an experienced mastering engineer is good for a couple of things:
1] really getting the most out of your tracks, whether they be demos or a slick production, and
2] quickly hearing/learning about some of the stuff you missed in mixing.
That being said, I've said for a long time that if you don't expect to sell more than 1000 copies, do it yourself (except for label demos). You will learn a lot from doing it yourself, but it's unlikely you'll actually be able to attain the same results that an experienced engineer can achieve with better tools.
The easy way to do it is to do it yourself then have one track done to see if the difference is worth it for your project.
Not to be snooty, but I sincerely doubt that anyone in a project studio could master an album as well as an experienced engineer with a great room/monitors and gear. It realy comes down to whether or not tha is necessary for your project.
1] really getting the most out of your tracks, whether they be demos or a slick production, and
2] quickly hearing/learning about some of the stuff you missed in mixing.
That being said, I've said for a long time that if you don't expect to sell more than 1000 copies, do it yourself (except for label demos). You will learn a lot from doing it yourself, but it's unlikely you'll actually be able to attain the same results that an experienced engineer can achieve with better tools.
The easy way to do it is to do it yourself then have one track done to see if the difference is worth it for your project.
Not to be snooty, but I sincerely doubt that anyone in a project studio could master an album as well as an experienced engineer with a great room/monitors and gear. It realy comes down to whether or not tha is necessary for your project.
P
protein
New member
The thing is, if only top mastering engineers using excellent and very expensive monitoring equipment in specially built rooms and paying very close attention can tell the difference, what does it matter to the record-buying, tv-watching, radio-listening public? In my financial position (on a small label and running a small studio) the difference certainly isn't worth paying someone £100 an hour.
I've mastered my own stuff which has appeared on tv and cinema, on commercial radio, in record shops etc. and I've mastered other people's stuff which has been released on labels. Nobody noticed the difference. Either I'm a natural born masterer ( yeah right ) or there is a wee whiff of bullshit about how difficult mastering is and how much we should be paying for it. There's certainly a mystical air about it when discussed on forums like this.
Obviously if I was going into top-notch studios I wouldn't master it myself but I'd only be in top studios if there was a big publisher/label paying for it. I'd be happy to let someone with the top-notch gear and ears to master it if it was all being paid for by EMI while I drank champagne in a hot tub with some supermodels.
Genre does make a difference too. lo-fi indie and dance music doesn't need to be mastered by anything more fancy than some good Waves plug ins. With dance music especially, the mastering part is best left to the person writing/producing it because the feel of the track can depend on the mastering. Lots of dance music, trip-hop, drum'n'bass etc is really heavily pumping on purpose or squashed to death for a really fat and stoned sound.
I've mastered my own stuff which has appeared on tv and cinema, on commercial radio, in record shops etc. and I've mastered other people's stuff which has been released on labels. Nobody noticed the difference. Either I'm a natural born masterer ( yeah right
) or there is a wee whiff of bullshit about how difficult mastering is and how much we should be paying for it. There's certainly a mystical air about it when discussed on forums like this. Obviously if I was going into top-notch studios I wouldn't master it myself but I'd only be in top studios if there was a big publisher/label paying for it. I'd be happy to let someone with the top-notch gear and ears to master it if it was all being paid for by EMI while I drank champagne in a hot tub with some supermodels.
Genre does make a difference too. lo-fi indie and dance music doesn't need to be mastered by anything more fancy than some good Waves plug ins. With dance music especially, the mastering part is best left to the person writing/producing it because the feel of the track can depend on the mastering. Lots of dance music, trip-hop, drum'n'bass etc is really heavily pumping on purpose or squashed to death for a really fat and stoned sound.
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
And Brad is one of the guys who really knows what he's talking about when it comes to mastering. He's one of the major mastering engineers in the country.bblackwood said:
Creamyapples1
www.murphycabs.com
I think what we really need is a few more people to say something along the lines of:
Hiring an experienced mastering engineer is good for a couple of things:
1] really getting the most out of your tracks, whether they be demos or a slick production, and
2] quickly hearing/learning about some of the stuff you missed in mixing.
Heaven forbid we "scum home recorders" learn anything from someone who may actually know.
Hiring an experienced mastering engineer is good for a couple of things:
1] really getting the most out of your tracks, whether they be demos or a slick production, and
2] quickly hearing/learning about some of the stuff you missed in mixing.
Heaven forbid we "scum home recorders" learn anything from someone who may actually know.
Nick98338
New member
Thunder33 said:
True. And thanks for starting this up with that in mind. Hopefully, this can stay near the top so that folks can see it. Maybe even read it. We can hope.
junplugged
Taking the slow road
I like the sound of what I do.
There used to be a physical reason for mastering, making sure that the music that gets physically embedded in the plastic is going to treat the needle right. so there were limits in amplitude and other stuff that were required to keep the needle in the groove. Now we can do whatever we want, if we like it, it's good. Want to conform to a radio standard? that's different, but mastering has to survive for some reason and radio seems to be the reason.
kind of reminds me of giving up your publishing when you are the recording artist, when publishing was originally meant to find you a recording artist for your song.
There used to be a physical reason for mastering, making sure that the music that gets physically embedded in the plastic is going to treat the needle right. so there were limits in amplitude and other stuff that were required to keep the needle in the groove. Now we can do whatever we want, if we like it, it's good. Want to conform to a radio standard? that's different, but mastering has to survive for some reason and radio seems to be the reason.
kind of reminds me of giving up your publishing when you are the recording artist, when publishing was originally meant to find you a recording artist for your song.
pingu
New member
Creamyapples1 said:I think what we really need is a few more people to say something along the lines of:
Hiring an experienced mastering engineer is good for a couple of things:
1] really getting the most out of your tracks, whether they be demos or a slick production, and
2] quickly hearing/learning about some of the stuff you missed in mixing.
Heaven forbid we "scum home recorders" learn anything from someone who may actually know.
I dont think i understand where you are going.
bblackwood
Senior Moment
That's fantastic! keep it up - no one should be asking you to change your methods if you are thrilled with what you can achieve on your own.junplugged said:
Yes, yet it was still a matter of art as to who could do it best.
Hey, as long as you're happy and it translates well, no worries.
Find me someone complaining about what a good mastering engineer brings to the table...