Everybody hates this ques., but?

B

bullyhill

New member
Well because it's regarding a 57 versus ques.
OK,
I searched the mic forum and couldn't find the info I was looking for.I have the use of two older sm 57's that have been listening to the crack of a snare drum for years.
I need to mic my 4/12 cab and wanted to get a new one.
I am also considering the Beta 57. For the price of the Beta is there any thing else you would suggest I consider for cab micing as I already have two slightly beaten down 57's.
A blunt NO is acceptable.
Thanks
 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :D

The Sm-57 is the industry standard. It's a great mic.

One thing you might want to try would be close micing the cabinet with the 57 then putting some sort of Large Diameter Condensor a few feet a way (or maybe behind...) to thicken up ur tone.

Good luck,

Chris
 
Bully- It'll cost you $300-$400 or so to get a dynamic that will sound better than a 57 on cab for *some* stuff, *some* of the time. For the extra $50 or $60 you gain nothing, sound wise. What you might do is try a different compareably priced mic just for a different sound quality, such as AKG D770. I use AKG's and Shures for mic'ing cab, especially Shure SM7B. I don't use real loud cabs though, as a rule, so I don't know how a mic like the SM7 would work on a full stack cranked up. I've heard very good things about Sennheiser 421 for this application, but have not used the mic personally. Really, though, I find a cheap AKG is a very pleasing, different sound from a cheap Shure. They both work.-Richie
 
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I prefer a Beta 57 to a regular 57 sometimes, mostly on snare and guitars. It has more balls (low end) when up close to the source.

On rhythm guitars I'll put a beta 57 on the grill, then either a 57 a few inches off or a sd condensor back a foot or so.

On my rosewood snare I put a beta 57 right on the shell, outside the hole. It usually sounds bettter than a regular sm57.

I put it up against a 10" bass speaker once with great results.

Other than that, my old singer used it at practice and sometimes at shows, he liked it better than a 58. It's a good mic that I use pretty consistently. It's a hyper-cardioid, so it has a little different sound that I like. Regardless, I've used it on every recording I've done lately. I'll grab it before I grab an sm57 when I'm thinking about micing the source up close. Worth the extra $40? No, maybe a $20 difference, but it's like comparing Gala apples to Red Delicious apples - same fruit, ever-so-slightly different flavor.

If I didn't have it a 57 and a touch of EQ would suffice. I also like the Sennheiser 835 and the 845 mics. Same story between the 2 there.
 
Thanks all, I got my hands on a beta 57 and compared it to sm57 & 58. I couldn't justify the purchace, not to say it didn't sound good / different. To tell the truth I really liked the 58 two inches off the screen pointed at the cone. I gave the beta back and will be trying out some other suggestions I've read here and above utilizing both 57/58 in different positions and trying to get my hands on some of the mics you all listed above.
Thanks
 
I agree with the rest of the guys. 57's are the way to go!

Here's a little micing tip: (Note that you don't have to use this micing technique all the time.) Take your best condinser mic, if you have one, and set it infront of the amp, about 5 feet away and then put the 57 about 1-2" from the grill, halfway between the cone and the end of the amp.

Zeke
 
From what i understand it. The only difference between the 57 and beta 57 is the cardiod and hyper-cardiod. They are very similiar in sound. The really only advantage to hyper-cardiod is on stage when you need to get the source louder without feedback. Thus if your not using it for stage stuff, you should do just as well for sound on a normal 57.

The part about the beta having better bass response when upclose than the 57 probably has to do with the proximity effect. This is a guess, but i bet that the hyper-cardiod has more proximity effect than cardiod. This can be an advantage for some things. So you are right, just a bit different color.

wx3 - sorry dood but i had to say something. just because its considered the industries standard doesnt make it an automatic mic to buy. The main reason why this mic is so popular is because of its price. There are better sounding dynamic mics out there. Of course the 57 does have that standard sound, but what about getting something different to make your sound different than other sounds? I bet it would sound just as good but it would be different.

Also, becarefull with the Large Diaphragm condensor mix technique with guitar cab. If your doing it to make the sound bigger, your going the wrong way. With a distance of 5 feet you are going to get alot of room reverberation which in my opinion makes things sound thinner, and more distant. This might not be the case in all rooms, but im guessing that your recording in a living room or bedroom where the acoustics are not good enough for a technique like this to work right.

Another thing why i dont recommend this technique to new users, is phasing. If you dont understand phasing and dont know how to listen for it, there is a good chance you will get it. When you get phasing, it will basically make the sound disappear. If your going to do this, i recommend getting the sound you want with the 57, then mix in the condensor to liking. AND put the condensor on a different track instead of sub grouping them together, that way if there is a problem, you can easily take the condensor out and have the original 57 the way you liked it without the condensor.

danny
 
Yip, I was going to mention proximity effect but somehow managed not to. That's exactly it.

Also, I think it was pipelineaudio that did a write up a little while ago on how to check for phasing with 2 mics on a guitar amp. Do a search cuz it works.
 
Well, a SM-57 is a mic which every profesional studio really needs to have (even if the house guys won't use it). A Beta 57 is not. This is, obviously, just because the SM is already a known quantity, but it still has value.

Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
darnold said:
From what i understand it. The only difference between the 57 and beta 57 is the cardiod and hyper-cardiod.
Click to expand...

They also use different magnets. This makes quite a big difference.

Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Great stuff,
I ended up micing with 57/58 and like it, Can this present a phase issue?I would have no idea what to listen for. I will post it if you would listen. I did seem to pick up the low end a little and that was nice but still can't get the mid / high up . Micing seems to work much better in my case as aposed to direct , I will stick with the 57
Thanks again

I am using a room that I tried preparing by :
When house was build, 3/4 tung and groove subfloor with r30 insulation below that, The floor was glued and screwed and I taped the seems with duct tape, the walls are all 5/8 sheet rock and insulated, I then used a polystyrene 1/2 and taped the seams, 1/2 homasote taped, high plush carpet the wall are homasote on sheetrock and I am now trying to find another cheap layer for walls and ceiling. I was thinking the bumpy mattres pad, it looks like the stuff at the local studio just not as dense. Home Grown eh,That should probably be posted in studio building place but now that I'm here ...;)
 
as far as phase issues go, a good way to tell if you have them after the fact is to try playing the mix in stereo and then in mono. if it sounds strong in stereo, and REALLY weak in mono, you obviously have phase problems :D
 
darnold - Have you ever seen a studio with out a bunch of 57's laying around...

I wasn't trying to say, "well if everyone else is doing it..."

It's just the Sm-57 is a damn nice mic for the price, and is so versitile that it can be used on just about anything half decently. I really like mine, and wouldn't mind another one or two... Budget tells me other wise though :(
 
Sorry if i tried to make it seem like you were saying it that way. I knew you really wernt, but i thought i would say something because it seemed that it could come across as you saying it that way. Some newbie could have picked that up wrong and would have gotten the wrong idea of how things work heh.

And you are right, the SM57 is a great mic, infact i have 11 of them myself. You can use them on about everything. The main thing that ive found that i havnt found it work on is a kick drum and i dont specifically like it for bass amps. But it can still do the job if it need be.

Danny
 
Actually the SM57 and the Beta 57a sound VERY different.
The Beta is brighter in tone, and has a more detailed high end
reponse-very different microphones.
Shure probably would have been better off naming it the
"X-1" instead to avoid comparisons...

Chris
 
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