ever deal with this problemo...

C

cbsc

New member
Hi Homerecorders,

With certain songs, my voice functions best with the guitars and basses
detuned down to D or C (from E) a whole step or two (and I'm talking detuning ALL THE STRINGS). But detuning this far kills the tone on the guitars and basses with buzzing and such as well as being to loose to play (an E string wasn't really meant to be a low C).

(Hence we get the rise of 7 stringed guitars and 5 stringed basses?)

Anyways, I don't have a 7 string guitar or a 5 string bass, so I was thinking one solution might be to re-string the instruments with lower gauge strings, but I wanted to see if and how other people have delt with this?

Thanks, Chad
 
why not just transpose the song and play it in a different key that's easier for your voice? that's essentially what you're doing anyway.
 
bennychico11 said:
why not just transpose the song and play it in a different key that's easier for your voice? that's essentially what you're doing anyway.
Click to expand...

Do you even play guitar?
 
I don't think that's a bad idea. People do this all the time, whether using a capo or just playing in different positions.

Some songs are simply easier to sing that way. Take something simple like "If I could read your mind love" .. much easier to sing capoed on the third fret for me.

The question is whether it is necessary to go down, or whether there are other alternatives that would also suit the voice.

I have never tried detuning that far. I'm not sure how much joy you would have. There is also the possibility of intonation/action issues if you go with very different strings to consider.

Interesting experiment though :)
 
Assuming you are able to sing/perform well in that tuning, and the song sounds best in that tuning, I would get the guitar setup properly so it doesn't give so many problems.

I think transposing it to a different key should be a last resort.
 
cbsc said:
Anyways, I don't have a 7 string guitar or a 5 string bass, so I was thinking one solution might be to re-string the instruments with lower gauge strings, but I wanted to see if and how other people have delt with this?

Thanks, Chad
Click to expand...

I think you'll want HEAVIER gauge strings. Lower gauge strings will go even more slack when you detune.
 
7string said:
I think you'll want HEAVIER gauge strings. Lower gauge strings will go even more slack when you detune.
Click to expand...


I second that motion.

Don't bother with 24.75" scale guitars. Also, if you don't play too much on the higher frets, you can loosen the truss rod and the strings wont buzz (although the higher up you play, the more out of tune it'll sound.)
 
very cool...

Thanks everyone for the great ideas-- insta problemo presto chango!!!

Keep on recording,
Chad
 
forgive my ignorance, and i do play guitar (rhythm and bass varieties).

i don't understand the point of detuning a whole step unless you are just doing so to get a lower bass sound out of the guitar.

if you are doing so because your voice sounds better in that key, then why aren't you just playing to that key from the natural string setup?

i guess what i'm asking is this. If you play C-major fingering in a whole-step detuned setup, you're playing Bb major, so why aren't you just playing Bb major from the natural string setup or playing A-major fingering from a 2nd fret capo?
 
crosstudio said:
forgive my ignorance, and i do play guitar (rhythm and bass varieties).

i don't understand the point of detuning a whole step unless you are just doing so to get a lower bass sound out of the guitar.

if you are doing so because your voice sounds better in that key, then why aren't you just playing to that key from the natural string setup?

i guess what i'm asking is this. If you play C-major fingering in a whole-step detuned setup, you're playing Bb major, so why aren't you just playing Bb major from the natural string setup or playing A-major fingering from a 2nd fret capo?
Click to expand...

Yes, I'll second this question. I don't get why you don't just play the song in the proper key for your voice using the standard tuning?
 
I keep my acoustic tuned down 1/2 step and use a capo in the first position most of the time. I find often that Eb, Ab and Bb are natural keys for singers, especially in groups and removing the capo gives me the option.
 
AGCurry said:
Yes, I'll second this question. I don't get why you don't just play the song in the proper key for your voice using the standard tuning?
Click to expand...

I can't see why people detune two whole steps to suit their vocal range...to me, that's just crazy. Capos are handy for this. I know tuning a half step down makes strings easier to bend.
 
crosstudio said:
forgive my ignorance, and i do play guitar (rhythm and bass varieties).

i don't understand the point of detuning a whole step unless you are just doing so to get a lower bass sound out of the guitar.

if you are doing so because your voice sounds better in that key, then why aren't you just playing to that key from the natural string setup?

i guess what i'm asking is this. If you play C-major fingering in a whole-step detuned setup, you're playing Bb major, so why aren't you just playing Bb major from the natural string setup or playing A-major fingering from a 2nd fret capo?
Click to expand...

exactly the reason I was asking...
but of course because I don't play guitar, I'm a moron for asking that.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
crosstudio said:
i don't understand the point of detuning a whole step unless you are just doing so to get a lower bass sound out of the guitar.

if you are doing so because your voice sounds better in that key, then why aren't you just playing to that key from the natural string setup?

i guess what i'm asking is this. If you play C-major fingering in a whole-step detuned setup, you're playing Bb major, so why aren't you just playing Bb major from the natural string setup or playing A-major fingering from a 2nd fret capo?
Click to expand...

My guess:
Detuning changes the voicing and tonal aspect of the notes. It makes it easier for the guitarists to play open chords and major barre chords to a song, therefore easier for a vocalist to sing to, as opposed to using a capo which gives a 'higher' tonality to the notes?

It also opens up a whole boatload of possibilities for harmonics, squeeks, squeal's, etc. ala Zakk Wilde that would be much more difficult if not impossible when using a capo. And considering detuning is used mainly by rock/metal type guitarists it just makes more sense.
 
Chad,

You absolutely can detune your guitar with heavier strings and don't let anyone stop you if that's what works for you artistically. Tony Iommi was doing this 30 years ago, it's not new.

Mechanically, you may have to adjust the intonation and setup of the guitar. The other challenge is controlling your pick attack so you don't knock the strings sharp (out of tune) since they are under less tension than in standard tuning.

There are guitars built for detuning such as the Les Paul Baritone and Ibanez MMM5 but you will probably be able to get away with a full step (D) tuning on most guitars if you use heavier strings. Two steps and beyond is much more challenging.

Best of luck
 
1)get some ernie ball power slinkys, GHS boomers, or other similar gauged strings

2)tune guitar to desired key/pitch

3)set the action

4)tune again

5)set the intonation

6)tune again

basically, throwing on some heavier strings will help with the buzzing and loss of tonality, but any time you change your string gauge it becomes necessary to setup the guitar for that specific gauge and tuning, or everything will sound like ass
 
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