EQz and Mixing metal music...

[Hallatar]

Can U guys help me? I'm composing new metal songs with my brand new V-amp2. But I don't have much knowledge about mixing and EQ stuff. Guitars sound a bit muddy. How do you use EQ to guitars? How do you pan them? Here you can find a clip from my song www.sunpoint.net/~hallatar/Fairy's Dance.mp3 . You can send some other cool tips too Also Anyone who are interested about Drumkit from Hell, download this clip

 

[esactun]

I haven't heard your clip (I'm at work!) so it's hard to give recommendations. I'll give you some biolerplate ideas that should at least be close, and then you'll need to listen hard and make adjustments. Learning good EQ use can really only be self-taught, but some ideas like the ones below helped *me* out a lot. They've helped *my* recordings, but Your Mileage May Vary.

For mud removal, try removing a few dB at about 300hz. Also roll off lows below 100hz or so, they're not so necessary for distorted axe (unless you seriously detune, like to B or A#). Too much super-low end seems to sound heavy+nice on headphones but like ass everywhere else (one reason why they say "DON'T MIX ON PHONES"... of course I learned that hard way). It'll add lots of undefined crap to the mix.

The shred seems to live around 8K, the usual guitar attack at about 2K... you may want to cut a little from 700-1000hz or so to make room for the drums...

And listen listen listen!! After a while your ears will be trained to "guess" the offending frequencies to be cut. EQ is hard to master.

Hope this helps a bit. Also, do what helped me: go to Prorec.com and look for the multi-part series "All Things Being EQ-al" (http://prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/AFFCBC3A0382C83A862565D6001E69A8) and the article "Why Your Mixes Suck." (http://prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/5C8127B86D60C1B9862566B9001EF763) hey may not be totally relevant to your current problem, but they have good stuff on there.

 

[Uladine]

I'm new to the wonders of EQ as well, and I must say that metal music can be a bitch to mix. I'm not saying im good at mixing anything else, but I tend to have quite a bit of trouble with metal, which is coincidentally my favorite music.

The drummer wants tons of low end in his kick, the bassist wants a huge solid bottom, and the guitarists crank up the bass on their rigs so much that when they palm mute that low B string your speakers seem seem to honk rather than speak. Add all this together and youve got mud soup. Someone that knows what theyre doing (unlike me) can clear this up without taking the balls out of everything with some fancy EQ tricks that boggle the hell out of me.

 

[Speeddemon]

Metal drums EQ.

Boost a bit for your kick drum at 60-80 Hz, for really low bottom, around 120-150Hz for depth, cut at 250-300Hz for less 'boxyness'.
Bass guitar basically the same, but beware that it won't be all the way in the way of your kick drum. Bass guitar add +2dB at 2.5kHz for attack/slap...

Be sure to check some books on this.
"Modern Recording Techniques" by David Miles Huber for instance. A very comprehensive book about audio-recording in general. Sound/Studio design/mic placement/types of sound processors/digital info/etc. It's all in there.

cheerz

 

[Hallatar]

Re: Metal drums EQ.

Bass guitar basically the same, but beware that it won't be all the way in the way of your kick drum. Bass guitar add +2dB at 2.5kHz for attack/slap...

Hey thanks to you all for your replies! Actually I didn't have any bass guitar in that song. I don't own one and all soundfonts are crap. Maybe I should buy bass guitar and bass v-amp or some gigasampled library. Anyways I'll try your tips...

 

[Speeddemon]

Bass guitar

If you want to buy a decent sounding quality bass guitar for little money, buy OLP. (Officialy Licensed Product). it's a Musicman Stingray imitation, and one of my teachers, Erik Coenen (who's done the basswork on Ilse Delange's "Dear John" album) has one, and sold 15(!) to my fellow students. This bass will only cost ya around $300-350, and SOUNDS AS GOOD AS SOME ORIGINAL STINGRAYS! Tested and approved by some pro's, not me. I played on it, and although I'm mainly a guitarplayer, it was really an easy bass to play on. Much better than any Ibanez Soundgear.
My own bassguitar is a Cort NA-4, very nice, but more like $700-800.

ANyway, be sure to check the OLP-range. 4 and 5 strings. very allround, and deep tone.

 

[apush]

OLP baby

yeah, those cheap little OLP's sound pretty nice. I've heard they are actually manufactured by Ernie(s) Ball(s) with the same specs as the Stingrays. They're just using lesser quality woods and metals.

 

[warlock]

Just remember there is such a thing as too much distortion

 

[Roel]

Just remember there is such a thing as too much distortion

I second that.

And no mids in the guitar is definately ASKING for a muddy sound. No mids in the guitars will leave just 2 choices: you hear what the guitarists do, but the guitars are too loud, or you don't hear what they do. Guitar is a mid instrument. No way out.

 

[B.SABBATH]

Too much distortion?

What about "Pantera"


Hey Warlock, I still listen to "Flamescapes" It holds the title for one of the greatest tunes I've ever heard here.

stop all that crazy talk about too much distortion

 

[B.SABBATH]

One more thing Warlock,

go to the "mixing clinic" and rip apart my new song.
Dam it, I played your tune for everyone. Probably heard it 40 times at least.

 

[Speeddemon]

Too much distortion?

What about "Pantera"

stop all that crazy talk about too much distortion

YEs, there is a thing as too much distortion. Hell, you'll find out when double or tripletracking your guitar parts when recording (in a studio).
While one guitar with a Pantera-like-distortion may sound fine, it'll definately becomes muddy when redo-ing that part more than 3 times.
A better option is to record 3 guitars with total different sounding mild distortions, and maybe one with heavy distortion.

Try a 80's glamrock middy mid-gain distortion, add a 70's crunch with much high, and then add a 5150/dimebagg/iced earth-ultra gain distortion.
DO some levelling, do some panning, do some compressing...then you'll end up with FAT DISTORTION THAT ISN'T MUDDY.

 

[B.SABBATH]

Speed,

I hear what your saying, BUT I read how "the Great Southern Trendkill" was recorded, and "Terry Date" said, doubled is all that he feels is needed, especially with alternate tunings. Listen to the sound of the guitar on that album. Over the top distortion to the extreme, 2 guitar tracks, and a sledge hammer sound.

 

[Speeddemon]

While one guitar with a Pantera-like-distortion may sound fine, it'll definately becomes muddy when redo-ing that part more than 3 times.

See, B.Sabbath, not to be a smart-ass, but I said "more than 3 times". I think ol' Terry would agree.
I love his mixing on Dark Angel's "Time Does Not Heal" (1991) too.

Anyway, another option is: 1 track direct out from a DI/POD/GT-3?etc. and another track taken by an amped mic. The amp is fed by the Right-out of the POD/GT-3.
Combine these 2 and you'll get a phat sound! I tried this with my 40W Roland practice amp, a Boss GT-3 and a SM57.
I connected the L-out from the GT-3 directly to my Korg D16, and I let the R-out go to the amp-input, and mic the amp with the SM57. Hell yeah!

 

[Uladine]

One thing I must add to the Dimebag thing...

He has been noted for sucking the mids out of his tone, but listen to any pantera song and tell me theres no mids in the guitar. There must've been some mids added in the mixing stage or something because theres no way you can get a tone like that with the mids sucked out. I've also read that he has a lot of low end in his tone, but you don't hear much of that on pantera albums. It seems people forget how much the original sound can change from the amp to the mixing stage to the mastering stage to the out of the stereo stage. Its like someone reading a guitar magazine and then going out and buying all the same equipment that dimebag uses and tweaking everything the same way he does so they can sound like him on his albums, only to realize, "dang, my guitar still doesnt sound like his." They only have half the recipe.

 

[B.SABBATH]

I think I understand what your trying to say, BUT speaking about 'Pantera', I read in E.Q. mag that it was 2 totally distorted guitars that make up the main sound. Plus whatever mixing. I understand about using more than three, but he USUALLY doesn't do it because there is no need. I hear ya though....

In closing, I agree...... the more distortion the better, if your going for "the Trendkill" sound.

late

 

[jonobacon]

From my experience mxing metal, I have learned the following main things:

- Don't suck *all* the mid out. Whack up the Bass of the guitars and then add some mid until it doesnt rasp and finally bring up the treble. The main thing is to eliminate the Fuzz and mid can help with doing that.

- Don't use too much Bass or gain - it can create the mud you speak of.

- Make sure you double track the same part and pan to each side of the stereo field - make sure the parts are not directly copied or you will get a chorus sound, but make sure the parts are played properly or they will stick out like a sore thumb. Also make sure the levels are the same.

- The bass needs to be in the middle of the stereo field.

Hope this helps.