EQ'ing Piano

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guitarfreak12

guitarfreak12

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I recorded a Grand piano recently, and it came out pretty good with the exception of some probelm freqs I can't seem to find. Most instruments have "common areas" in eq that are either added, or avoided i.e. acoustic guitar 250hz down by about 6 db is usually used, or just in general mudd has to be removed, however in electric guitar it seems that that freq mid range is wanted. Is there a "common area" or areas that is good for grand Piano?
 
It's completely dependent on the mics, preamps, and positioning...

The only thing I find myself doing on somewhat of a regular basis is adding a whisker of low shelf to the high mic and high shelf to the low mic. Problem frequencies are another story...
 
right, that's what I figured someone would say.......dang it
 
I second what John said all the way.

A quality-sounding grand paino is one of those instruments that does not lend itself well to EQ; the equalization tends to sound like EQ and not as an enhancement of the natural sound of the piano. This is OK for some applications like rock or honky tonk piano, but if you're going for the full, elegant sound of a real grand piano, EQing the main frequencies just isn't going to cut it.

The critical conponents to recording grand paino are microphone selection and placement. A whole 200-page book could be written on just this subject alone, but if you do a search of these forums you should find a few nice threads to get you started on that subject.

Coming a close second - losing by only a nostril - in importance here is the quality of the mic preamp. The only reason this comes in second is because a quality mic pre is't going to help a great deal if your mic is an SM57 randomly stuck inside the piano ;). But the other side of the coin is that you can have the best mic and mic placement possible, but if you are squeezing that signal through a cheap preamp, it's really going to throw a wet blanket over the sound.

While all of the above is true for any instrument, it's on grand piano that it really makes a huge difference.

G.
 
With piano you sometimes have certain problem areas that need fixing. Some pianos are uneven and will have one note sticking out too loud or too soft, will have a buzz or a bright string, or will have a thumpy or squeaky pedal that needs to be dealt with.

To find those areas you need to go in with a parametric using narrow bands. Boost the volume on the eq and sweep until you find the problem frequency, then cut it until it sounds right to you. Each piano is different, so the problem areas likely won't be the same from instrument to instrument.
 
the last time i tried to record a baby grand it stood up and slapped me around like the bitch i am :eek:

a good piano sound is hard (to me anyway)
 
giraffe said:
the last time i tried to record a baby grand it stood up and slapped me around like the bitch i am :eek:

a good piano sound is hard (to me anyway)
Click to expand...
It ain't just you, bi--er--giraffe. ;) I think grand piano (including baby) is, if not *the* hardest instrument to get a high-quality recording from, it's certainly near the top.

I think part of it is the nature and size of the instrument itself; the sound is eminating from ~100 square feet of instrument surface with every square foot sounding different. Another huge part of it is human expectation, I think. A quality piano has such a full, pleasing, rich, complex, and nuanced sound that any subtractions from that sound are immediately and unpleasingly noticable.

So, welcome to the harem. :D

G.
 
It often depends on capture. For example, the only way to properly record a Steinway is to set your mics not to pick up the noise straight off the strings but to have them pick up the sound as it bounces back off the inside of the lid- otherwise you can't get a clean capture. So it might be worth trying a different capture technique- the results might respond differently to EQ'ing. Also, I found this online:

"Piano – Cut around 350hz gently to reduce muddiness and boost above 1khz for clarity (it’ll obviously depend on what’s being played – piano has a massive range of frequencies!) and around 150-250hz for the bassy notes."

Hope this helps!
 
I'm thinking that maybe he figured it out sometime within the past six years after this thread fell...
 
Mic placement

I have a M&H A and have gotten very nice results by using a pair of Rode NT1a mics in X-Y towards the back of the instrument (end of strings). I also throw a boundary mic underneath the piano which is mixed in as needed in the center.

I saw somewhere that the best seat in the house for piano sound is where the pianist is sitting, so maybe try a pair of mics about where their ears are. I know this sounds strange and unconventional, but it makes a certain amount of sense.

The last time I recorded my grand I was less than happy with the sound but the violin came out great. I'm not exactly sure what happened to the piano, I probably better track this down because I'm going to need to record it soon.

I have a Symmetrix 202 that I used on the violin mic (Oktava MC012). Next time I will try it with the pair of Rodes instead. I ran them through a pair of ART TubePacs with the same settings as I used previously when a boogie-woogie guy came in and did a bunch of tracks here. The TubePacs worked great for that, as the playing was very heavy so a bit of compression was helpful. For the classical, the accompanist had a very light touch so the settings didn't sound very good. I know some folks would say it's because ART equipment sux. Well. Maybe. We all just do what we have to do.

BTW, I came across this thread looking for advice on how to EQ an electronic piano for a pre-master I'm doing. The piano is mixed hard L-R and does not have a very transparent sound. I'm using a DDMF LP-10 stereo dynamic eq and a Voxengo MSED to try to close it up a bit. The piano sounds muffly, like someone threw a handkerchief on the strings. I'll try the advice given above for EQ points. Thanks.

Also... I just bought "Mixing With Your Mind" and am about halfway through it. It cost over $100 which is a lot of dough. I could have put that toward a nice pre or mic or, well, you know, anything. But I will tell you that if you read, understand, and practice what this book teaches your recordings will improve by an order of magnitude. I think the tips in the first 10 pages would be worth the cost of the book. They have a website. Stav (the author) is a real person who answers your email questions. That's worth something all by itself.

Hope this helps somebody.

Bill
 
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