EQing guitars?

[chessrock]

Oh, and just to rub more dirt in the gash I put in your pathetic arguments: ... Damn that must hurt. Sucks to be you dude, ...

OH MY GOD ! ! ! I'M SO OWNED ! ! !

WHATEVER AM I GOING TO DO IT SUCKS SO BAD TO BE ME ! ! !

(cue violins, sobbing)


But back to the genious point you just made regarding the brochure on the 57. Like, uh, yea. If you move your mic back a foot, it's going to sound different. If you move it back the length of a football field or all the way to Arkansas ... it's going to change the sound. That still doesn't change the fact that 99% of the best guitar tones in history were captured via a 57 against the grille. And hence, with guitar amps, mic positioning shouldn't have to be a very delicate task requiring a high degree of complexity to get a good sound. If a 57 on the grille doesn't do it ... then you should be able to make it work by dialing in different settings on the amp or by switching pickups, mucking with your pedals, etc. etc. etc.

 

[danny.guitar]

Chessrock, would you not agree that sometimes just pointing the mic slightly over at an angle...ok, more like a 45° angle helps take out some of the "harshness" or brightness on an amp? Sure, you could try and fix it on the amp, but sometimes it just needs something subtle to get the edge off.

At least from my limited experience.

 

[jrhager84]

Don't encourage his ego Danny.........lol

 

[XLR]

With an SM57, there's a huge diffence in tone you can get by placement and angle. I usually prefer the darker tone you get at the outside edge of the speaker, right up against the grill. And having the mike there but pointing toward the speaker's center at about a 45 deg angle, seems to add clarity while still keeping the overall tone dark.

 

[crosstudio]

if your guitar sound is MUDDY, you should probably start looking at the following before worrying about mic placement:

1) you've got a shite guitar
2) you need to use a pick instead of your thumb
3a) you've set your strat to bridge single coil with the tone rolled off
3b) you've set your les paul to rhythm with the tone rolled off
4) your guitar fx [distortion box] produces build up in the mud areas.

since this is home recording, i'm assuming that the guitar, cables, amp, mic, and mixer belong to you (the user). Once you find your favorite settings for the sound(s) you like, right them down so you don't have to re-discover them every time.

I keep my fender hotrod deville in the closet with my sm57 right where i like it [midway between the center and the edge of left speaker damn near touching the grill clothe straight on]. its there for me whenever i'm ready. that mic on that amp and it never moves.

that's my recording amp. i have a solid state that i gig with.

Here's something i don't understand about the mic placement argument for an electric instrument. if you want more bass why not turn up the bass knob on the amp or turn down the tone setting on the guitar? if you want more presence why not adjust the tone on the guitar, or switch pickups. Some amps even come with a presence knob... imagine that.

I have found that by switching the little doohicky on my american fender strat from all the way to the left, to all the way to the right, i get varying degrees of "warmth" and "presence" without having to move my mic a single inch.

funny how that works just like how the people who built the guitar thought it would. if it weren't for that little switch, i'd have to move the mic between songs when i'm playing live so that i can get different sounds out of my rig.

 

[mixmkr]

, i'd have to move the mic between songs when i'm playing live so that i can get different sounds out of my rig.

So...when Roger Daltry was swinging his [duct-taped] 58 around, do you think we was worried about mic placement???

Crossstudio... one of the funnier posts this week. crack me up.

 

[cusebassman]

Here's something i don't understand about the mic placement argument for an electric instrument. if you want more bass why not turn up the bass knob on the amp or turn down the tone setting on the guitar? if you want more presence why not adjust the tone on the guitar, or switch pickups. Some amps even come with a presence knob... imagine that.

I have found that by switching the little doohicky on my american fender strat from all the way to the left, to all the way to the right, i get varying degrees of "warmth" and "presence" without having to move my mic a single inch.

funny how that works just like how the people who built the guitar thought it would. if it weren't for that little switch, i'd have to move the mic between songs when i'm playing live so that i can get different sounds out of my rig.

Chess's point come to light! Once you have a go-to mic position, play with the other damn settings. Its not tough

 

[LIMiT]

if your guitar sound is MUDDY, you should probably start looking at the following before worrying about mic placement:

1) you've got a shite guitar
2) you need to use a pick instead of your thumb
3a) you've set your strat to bridge single coil with the tone rolled off
3b) you've set your les paul to rhythm with the tone rolled off
4) your guitar fx [distortion box] produces build up in the mud areas.

since this is home recording, i'm assuming that the guitar, cables, amp, mic, and mixer belong to you (the user). Once you find your favorite settings for the sound(s) you like, right them down so you don't have to re-discover them every time.

I keep my fender hotrod deville in the closet with my sm57 right where i like it [midway between the center and the edge of left speaker damn near touching the grill clothe straight on]. its there for me whenever i'm ready. that mic on that amp and it never moves.

that's my recording amp. i have a solid state that i gig with.

Here's something i don't understand about the mic placement argument for an electric instrument. if you want more bass why not turn up the bass knob on the amp or turn down the tone setting on the guitar? if you want more presence why not adjust the tone on the guitar, or switch pickups. Some amps even come with a presence knob... imagine that.

I have found that by switching the little doohicky on my american fender strat from all the way to the left, to all the way to the right, i get varying degrees of "warmth" and "presence" without having to move my mic a single inch.

funny how that works just like how the people who built the guitar thought it would. if it weren't for that little switch, i'd have to move the mic between songs when i'm playing live so that i can get different sounds out of my rig.

Well....

When playing live you're cab isn't isolated...and there is bleed from a PA..and other players...not much you can do with mic placement.

You leave your amp in the same spot,..miced up the same way every time you record?



Man alive... has no one ever e x p e r i m e n t e d with micing the back of a cab?

funny how that works just like how the people who built the guitar thought it would. if it weren't for that little switch, i'd have to move the mic between songs when i'm playing live so that i can get different sounds out of my rig.

Funny how that works,...how the people that built microphones didn't just build one, for one intention... and for it to be put in one spot and left there...
they made them with different patters...frequency responces, and to be easily moved around.

-LIMiT

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

It's not an either/or situation.

It *does* matter whether you stick a mic on the dust cap or on the cone. It *does* matter whether you stick a mic nearer the voice coil vs. nearer the surround. It often *does* matter on a multi-speaker cabinet which speaker you choose to mic. It *does* matter with a cardioid at what angle you have the mic facing. It *does* matter which mic(s) you use.

All that said, though, mic technique will never get a bad tone to sound good. But it can limit how good the good tone will record. Mic position *does* matter, but only in a fine-tuning kind of way; you have to start with the right tone first.

Guitar tone is a poor substitute for musicianship, anyway. Regardless of genre, 75% of a guitarist's "tone" will be in their playing ability and individual technique; the pedal/amp/cab choice is only a fine tuning of their sound, and the miking is only a fine tuning of the cab sound for translation to recording.

So, no, a good engineer doesn't just willy-nilly stick a mic up to a cab and hit the Big Red Button, but he also doesn't fret over mic position too much if the player sucks or if the gear sucks...unless he can replace either one. Most often, he'll replace a cab while wishing he could replace the guitarist instead.

G.

 

[Daisy]

I'm resurrecting this thread from the dead.

To quote Nigel Godrich in a Mix Magazine interview regarding his simplistic approach to tracking guitars on the album OK Computer:

"It's just really, really basic. I'm not particularly anal about miking up guitars and stuff, as far as I'm concerned you stick an SM-57 in front of the amp and it is what it is. If the sound is good out of the amp then it'll sound good." -- Nigel Godrich, Mix Magazine interview

Back to your regular programming!

 

[HangDawg]

I've said it before, there are very few instances where I've heard a song in the clinic that has what I would call a good guitar tone. Generally, the cleaner and slightly overdriven tones come out better. The closer people try to get to a wall of guitar metal sound, the worse it becomes. Most start looking towards the POD's and J-Stations for it and we all know what happens with that. I could count on 1 hand the number of metal guitar tracks I've heard here that sound decent.

It really depends on the song as to what you are going to do with that mic. For metal, it becomes more crucial that all things are in order before you'll get the unholy sound us metal freaks desire. It's been a long battle for me but after 3 years, I can get what most would describe as a fairly whoop ass guitar sound. I've used the same head, (a dual recti) but it's been modded so the eq section is more useable and the bottom is much tighter. I've used 57's, 421's 441's e609's but have settled on the M201 most of the time. I've also moved the speaker cab just about everywhere in the room and used all kinds of absorption, diffusion and sometimes nothing.

So to ask where to place a mic or how to eq is really a stupid question on it's own. It needs to be in the context of the song before any of this shit even matters.

Oh, and most of the time the guitar players magic tone is not what gets recorded. Keep them in the control room well away from the amp. Only allow them to hear what comes out of the monitors if possible.

 

[kallyarks]

Move the mic?

That ain't gonna' do shit.

Switching the pickup will have the most noticeable effect, usually.

Followed by fiddling with the tone knobs ... both on the guitar and on the amp.

.

Moving the microphone can be a very effective way of getting a different sound. Positioning of the microphone is also important if you're using a cardioid dynamic microphone with an almost 360 degree range.

For a warm cuddly sound move the microphone to the edge of the speaker cone facing head on (perpendicular with the cone) and for a meatier sound with more bite, have the microphone in the middle of the cone also head on.

 

[chavernac]

moving the mic is the first thing you should do.
It has a considerable impact on the tone of your recording. +/- ambience +/- mud +/- harshness
Anyone who claims the opposite is tone deaf.
Even on an amp cone, giving the mic an angle or moving in 2inches to the side would give it a total different sound.

You should check this video series. Fab is constantly mocing microhpones around until he is happy with the sound:

Gearfest 2011: Tracking 1/6 Bass Drum - PUREMIX
Gearfest 2011: Tracking 2/6 Overheads, Hihat - PUREMIX
Gearfest 2011: Tracking 3/6 Preamp Choices - PUREMIX (this one discusses preamp choices)
Gearfest 2011: Tracking 4/6 Vocal + Guitar - PUREMIX (this one shows an amazing A/B test btw UA4-710 vs UA610)
Gearfest 2011: Tracking 5/6 Violin, Upright - PUREMIX
Gearfest 2011: Tracking 6/6 The Whole Band - PUREMIX