EQing guitars?

[LIMiT]

You guys act like mic'ing a guitar cab is in some way a delicate task.


Come on.

It's a fucking speaker. Okay?

It's not that big or spread out.

It's usually no more than the size of a very small vaccum cleaner. No, I take that back ... most vaccum cleaners are worlds bigger than a typical speaker in a guitar cab.

Honestly, this is painful for me to have to say this ... but a drum set ... is generally very complex to record. You should be stressing out about every inch that your mics might be off, because yes, it will make a difference. On something like a drum set. Just so we're clear on this.

Accoustic guitar? Vocals? Same thing. An inch will make a world of difference. But guys ... a guitar cab speaker is nothing. I hate to shatter your world and all, but it's a fucking speaker. Me and your three-year-old daughter / sister / niece ... we eat guitar cab speakers for breakfast. Like a bowl of shredded wheat or fruit loops. You have this little speaker in front of you ... you stick a mic on it, and as long as you're not fucking retarted or an idiot savant, you should be fine, and your world of recording should be all fine and dandy from that point on. Unless, of course, you are a complete and utter moron.

It's not that complex. Not a lot of square centimeters to cover ... and if figuring out the best positioning of a mic on a guitar cab speaker is in any way a challenge ... or something that requires even the most minute strain of energy in a single brain cell of your neural network ...

... then give it up! You'r enot cut out for this shit. Okay? I don't know how else to tell you this. But for the sake of all that is holy ... drop this shit. Now. Thank you.

.

a speaker is a speaker huh...just like studio monitor is a monitor. Not to mention the cab enclosure, resonance of that speaker inside that enclosure ,..lifting the cab off the ground...wiring...etc etc. It all sound the same does it?

How long have you been doing this for?

I find it amazing how you can generalize how simple recording a guitar track is. I've assisted some pretty talented engineers, and more often than not, they go back to retrack, or re-amp the performance to get the sound best suited for the song.

And if you think moving a mic on a speaker away from the cone towards the dust cap doesn't change the tone, then you should quit...cause your ears are shot.

I wish people would only post helpfull stuff in threads...not tell people to quit when they're given advice to experiment with mic placement.

-LIMiT

 

[NTK88]

If you seriously have to move a mic to the outter edge of a speaker cone in order to have a usable guitar tone ...

... Holy shit. Fuck me. That must be one seriously FUCKED UP sounding guitar cab.

And you should do yourself a favor and run out to the nearest junk yard and ... no, that might actually be a cruel thing to do the poor unsespecting junk yard workers.

So how about you just burn that piece of crap guitar amp of yours and do the world a favor? Seriously. If you honestly can look me straight in the face and say ... "Chessrock, I get a slammin' guitar track ... as long as I move it to the very outter rim of the fucking speaker" ... then seriously. I'll give you like a thousand bucks.

Give me that magic speaker of yours that only sounds good in that 1/10th of a centimeter squre inch or whatever of space ... and I'll send that little, tiny bit of usable audio space to the fucking Smithsonian institution. Right next to Jimmy Hendrix's ashes or whatever .... And no. I'm not trolling. Do I look like I'm trolling? ? I've never been more serisous about anything in my fucking life. If you listen to nothing else I've said in my sad existance, I hope you can at least consider an ouce of what I'm saying to you about this subject.

.

Who ever said anything about it sounding bad?
I said different. Not bad. Read next time.

Not everyone likes a hard crunchy guitar sound.
Some times you might want a smooth yet edgy distortion.
You can make tweaks to the placement in addition to the settings of the head, and guitar.

 

[chessrock]

I've assisted some pretty talented engineers ...

Like who? Shit for brains.

Go fuck yourself and your imaginary engineer you've supposedly "assisted" ... in your wet dreams where you're bagin' Jenna Jameson at the same time.

.

 

[Sonixx]

a speaker is a speaker huh...just like studio monitor is a monitor. Not to mention the cab enclosure, resonance of that speaker inside that enclosure ,..lifting the cab off the ground...wiring...etc etc. It all sound the same does it?

How long have you been doing this for?

I find it amazing how you can generalize how simple recording a guitar track is. I've assisted some pretty talented engineers, and more often than not, they go back to retrack, or re-amp the performance to get the sound best suited for the song.

And if you think moving a mic on a speaker away from the cone towards the dust cap doesn't change the tone, then you should quit...cause your ears are shot.

I wish people would only post helpfull stuff in threads...not tell people to quit when they're given advice to experiment with mic placement.

-LIMiT

He's a TROLL...

 

[NTK88]

Like who? Shit for brains.

Go fuck yourself and your imaginary engineer you've supposedly "assisted" ... in your wet dreams where you're bagin' Jenna Jameson at the same time.

.

If you are seriously 37... wow you are one sad existence.
Seriously when an 18 year old tells a 37 year old to grow up... something is wrong.

Grow up guy.

 

[danny.guitar]

Chessrock is having a bad day. Or is sexually frustrated. Chessrock, take a vacation.

 

[chessrock]

If you are seriously 37... wow you are one sad existence.
Seriously when an 18 year old tells a 37 year old to grow up... something is wrong.

Grow up guy.

I'm waiting.

Who are these engineers you've so capably assisted with your vast expertise?

Yea. Thought so.

.

 

[NTK88]

I'm waiting.

Who are these engineers you've so capably assisted with your vast expertise?

Yea. Thought so.

.

Well you will be waiting for a long time because I wasnt the one who said that. Once again you fail to read correctly.

 

[LIMiT]

I'm waiting.

Who are these engineers you've so capably assisted with your vast expertise?

Yea. Thought so.

.

In school...every one of my teachers (Columbia-Academy of Recording Arts in 2001)..

out of school,.. Francois Lafleur,...and...wait a minute...why am I answering this chump...I'm not gonna let you turn this into...'He's a name dropper'....


Celestion 30's and Weber blue dogs...doesn't make a difference where you put the mic ...

Keep on trolling...

-LIMiT

 

[LIMiT]

and noobies...

check out the straight shooters here http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?t=4007&highlight=mic+placement

if anyone posts bullshit like moving a mic on a speaker doesn't effect the tone, they'll be called on it.

CheeseCock...I URGE you to start a thread stating that at the womb...let the pro's discredit you.

i'm only trying to help these noobs...but am only an assistant myself.

-LIMiT

 

[bkkornaker]

i believe Cheesrock is 100% fully aware that by placing a mic on the outter edge of the speaker cone, versus placing it in the center of the dustcap....will yield a different sound/tone.........

i think this thread just got way outta hand so no one knows whats going on anymore.........

and yes cheesrock, placeing a mic on the outter edge of a speakers cone will sound like "boxy" dark poo-poo............and placeing it dead center of the dustcap is a bright "fizzy" mess................so YES, i agree with your simple method of "JUST STICK IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CONE AND BE DONE WITH IT!

 

[chessrock]

YES, i agree with your simple method of "JUST STICK IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CONE AND BE DONE WITH IT!

Thank you!

No dunce hat for you today.

But I would recommend placing the mic just slightly off-center from the middle of the cone.

Like 99.9% of people have managed to do since the beginning of time.

.

 

[bkkornaker]

yup.....thats why i use a dual mic setup.......1 mic in the middle of the cone, and the 2nd one sitting right next to it slightly on a degree so the 2 mic diaphram ends are touchin..........(no phase issues here!)......


.....and BAM!!!!!




fat guitar tone for days!

 

[chessrock]

and noobies...

check out the straight shooters here http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?t=4007&highlight=mic+placement

if anyone posts bullshit like moving a mic on a speaker doesn't effect the tone, they'll be called on it.

CheeseCock...I URGE you to start a thread stating that at the womb...let the pro's discredit you.

i'm only trying to help these noobs...but am only an assistant myself.

-LIMiT

That post has been brought up so many times, I'm going to barf.

If your amp sucks ... it sucks.

Get used to the idea.

Slipperman is a genius. Seriously, he is. He's the only guy I know who has managed to create such a huge buzz from such a gigantic mob of idiots who hang on his every word ... over something so elementary.

I swear to God ... I'm going to start a freakin' thread just like Slippy about making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. What was that ridiculous quote he made about the magical point of "cabinet-speaker engagement"? ? Holy Crap! ! ! WOW ! ! I'll tell you what. If you buy my Peanutbutter Sandwich-making manual, I'll tell you all about the magical point of peanutbutter-jelly-bread engagement.

And then I'll throw in the magical "milk" point of engagement along with it. But only I'll take at least a few more chapters to describe it. That thread by Slippy is one of the most useless ways I can think of to waste your time on. But if that's your thing ... go ahead and knock yourself out! Give me a call when you find your magical point of "cabinet-speaker engagement." Then I'll tell you your tone sucks, and you need to use a different amp!

.

 

[bkkornaker]

Im so glad i joined this BBS Board today....................


...ive been very amused and entertained,........this is great! LOL

 

[LIMiT]

I never mention Slipperman anywhere,...nor did I mention that his 80 page post on micing a guitar amp was the bible. Most can see that as a joke. A funny read for sure.


The fundamentals of the average 22 fret guitar extend from approx an E2 to D6 (82Hz to 1174Hz)...with overtones that reach much higher.

The frequency limitations of the average guitar loudspeaker is restricted to below 5-6kHz (approx).

The most popular amp used for recording is a small, practice type, amp/speaker, designed to help the suffering high end by incorporating a sharp rise around 4-5kHz...giving it a cleaner, open sound.


If the amp/speaker being recorded is like those I've normally seen (Mesa Duals, Orange, Marshall, and...yikes..Vox's) cranked up really loud, while sounding awesome and overwhealming in the room, will probably sound muddy (and need sompe post EQ bumps at 5-8k) without some mic placement experimentation. You can't simply put up a 57 halfway between the cone and the edge of the speaker, on any given speaker on the cab. You have to listen, and know what you're trying to get to tape. That takes experimenting. That was what I was trying to get across.

Most want that 'super-wide'...extending past the boundary of their L/R monitors sound...and that is from mic placement. At least ...that is what I've been tought...and have been shown to be true.

-LIMiT

 

[bkkornaker]

Most want that 'super-wide'...extending past the boundary of their L/R monitors sound...and that is from mic placement. At least ...that is what I've been tought...and have been shown to be true.

-LIMiT

can you show me? this will be an interesting learning curve for me........I never knew mic placement on an amp .........could exceed the sound coming out of my studio monitors past the "Hard left/right" points, making it sound wider than my monitors can produce.......

this is gonna be cool!!!!!

 

[bkkornaker]

oh wait....i forgot.....this post is about "EQ'ing guitars".........


...we may have taken it WAYYYYyyyyy off topic now......

 

[LIMiT]

Well...it starts there. Everything starts at tracking. If you place a single mic in front of an acoustic guitar,..then have the guitarist move to the left or right of the mic, does it 'appear' to move left or right?

Same guitar, but less clarity, making it appear that the sound is moving. (very generalized here)

In mono - capture a bright tone (57 closer to cone for example), then a complimenting tone with lower-mids (e609 further from cone) ...then pan one hard L, the other hard R.

If you're doing this with guitars alone (not in the context of the song)..just listen for how well the guitars seperate when you pan them.

In the context of a song, you'll still have great seperation...but in most cases..I have to EQ alot of whatever it is I don't need from both trax.

(..because I'm not at the point yet where I can see that all I'll need in the end is guit A with just high brittle thinness and guitar b will need to be not so thin...at the tracking stage.)

I typically end up with the 57 and the e609 with quite a big bump at around 5-8k - which sperates them from the bass guitar and vocal...but soloed...sound shitty.

I'll see if I can find an audio example and post it tomorrow.

Honestly...just sitting here and writing this stuff out without doing it at the same time is a little hard...but it's helping me refresh my memory too...thats what this site is about.

helping each other...not bashing.

-LIMiT

 

[RAMI]

If you place a single mic in front of an acoustic guitar,..then have the guitarist move to the left or right of the mic, does it 'appear' to move left or right?

No.

If you're talking one mic, it will simply get louder and lower, or thinner and thicker (if you're moving up and down a guitar neck). But it won't "appear" to move laterally. Mic placement is barely relevant when talking about getting a wide-panned stereo sound in stereo, other than placing the mic so that the guitar(s) sound good.