EQ pre/post compression

[mixsit]

I thought of listening to the key out or so...

But I think it might really be some kind of feature if you loose the headroom in the sidechain. From a certain strength of sibilance in your sound, the sibilance won't be reduced further... This in fact would be kind of a dynamic EQ:

Sibilance bleow thresh : no reduction
Sibilance between thresh and headroom margin: reduction in gain
Sibilance above no further reduction.

The thing is: I don't know how the (most prolly used) algorithms would deal with the distortion, but it should work...

aXel

Wow. I thought earlier that might be where you were going with that.
Wayne

 

[Son of Mixerman]

I wonder if there is any practical difference between this and "Dynamic EQ"? I've always wanted to try one (is it the BSS?) but never been willing to shell out the bucks. The concept seems very appealing.
Wayne

Weiss makes a wonderful dynamic eq, kinda costly. A multiband compressor might help in certain situations, but it all depends on who's using it. Mastering Engineers often deal with having to pull vocals out, sometimes the compressor does it and sometimes its remix time. Its always best to track it right in the first place. If recordists keep thinking they can track it crappy and then pass the buck onto the mix engineer or the Mastering engineer youll never learn how to record it right.

Work the problem at the source...meaning the relationship between the singer and the mic. To me, If Im eq'in or compressing before anything else, Ive lost the battle without knowing it. If you can't retrack, then start learning ducking and gating using compressor side chains.
Ive never compressed a cue mix though, it makes sense to me...but Im not sure a 4 track has that ability. But on a four track...another thing is too just ride the head phone volume as well, use some tape to premark what volumes the headphone volume needs for you to hear yourself.

SoMm

 

[cjacek]

Its especially difficult to do with only 4 tracks. Typically on the vocals are done where the loud parts are recorded on seperate tracks and soft parts are done on separate tracks, then after every thing is recorded you ride the faders during mixdown as far as controlling changes in volume. The only think you can do is practice your singing more. You could use a compressor to squish the crap out of your loud vocals.
If the music your doing is like Papa Roach and Disturbed, your going to have to practice how to sound like your screaming when your really not that much louder. Pull the mic ultra close when doing the soft parts and pull it back to 1/2 of your arms reach (10 to 15 inches) for the loud parts. Id put the compression at 4:1 with fast attack and medium slow release for starters. If you must use eq, try to figure out what your voices center frequency is, see where it fits relative to the center frequency to the backing tracks, sometimes who have to pitch the song differently to find the niche.

Try printing this list out...Its from a Mastering Engineer who tried to help clarify eq starting points for most music.
Its just guide though.

400Hz
1. Increase to add clarity to bass lines especially when speakers are at low volume.
2. Reduce to decrease "cardboard" sound of lower drums (foot and toms).
3. Reduce to decrease ambiance on cymbals.

800Hz
1. Increase for clarity and "punch" of bass.
2. Reduce to remove "cheap" sound of guitars.

1.5KHz
1. Increase for "clarity" and "pluck" of bass.
2. Reduce to remove dullness of guitars.

3KHz
1. Increase for more "pluck" of bass.
2. Increase for more attack of electric / acoustic guitar.
3. Increase for more attack on low piano parts.
4. Increase for more clarity / hardness on voice.
5. Reduce to increase breathy, soft sound on background vocals.
6. Reduce to disguise out-of-tune vocals / guitars.

5KHz
1. Increase for vocal presence.
2. Increase low frequency drum attack ( foot / toms).
3. Increase for more "finger sound" on bass.
4. Increase attack of piano, acoustic guitar and brightness on guitars (especially rock guitars).
5. Reduce to make background parts more distant.
6. Reduce to soften "thin" guitar.

7KHz
1. Increase to add attack on low frequency drums ( more metallic sound ).
2. Increase to add attack to percussion instruments.
3. Increase on dull singer.
4. Increase for more "finger sound" on acoustic bass.
5. Reduce to decrease "s" sound on singers.
6. Increase to add sharpness to synthesizers, rock guitars, acoustic guitar and piano.

10KHz
1. Increase to brighten vocals.
2. Increase for "light brightness" in acoustic guitar and piano.
3. Increase for hardness on cymbals.
4. Reduce to decrease "s" sound on singers.

15KHz
1. Increase to brighten vocals (breath sound).
2. Increase to brighten cymbals, string instruments and flutes.
3. Increase to make sampled synthesizer sound more real.

Peace,
SoMm

Thanks very much for the reply. I'm printing this list out now But why is it that vocals sometimes "sit" at different frequencies ? Seems that different frequencies can "brighten" up a vocal ? Isn't there a one "generic" frequency ? Also, if I wish to EQ using different frequency ranges, it seems that my onboard EQ for the 424 is very limited. It only has low/high - + and mid sweep from 250 - 5K. I can only do one thing. Would you recommend an outboard EQ ? What kind ?

Thanks again,

Daniel

 

[cjacek]

You can always compress the cue mix. (Insert the compressor into the signal coming from the tape/DAW on the way to the headphones.

Hi,

Thanks for the reply but I don't really know what you're saying

Daniel

 

[littledog]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply but I don't really know what you're saying

Daniel

mic -> preamp -> tape/DAW -> compressor -> headphones

lets you record the signal without compression but still lets you hear the compression through the headphones. understand? the compressor will let you hear yourself over the backing tracks without committing the compression to the recording.

 

[cjacek]

mic -> preamp -> tape/DAW -> compressor -> headphones

lets you record the signal without compression but still lets you hear the compression through the headphones. understand? the compressor will let you hear yourself over the backing tracks without committing the compression to the recording.

Oh, I see .. But how do connect my 424 mkIII in such a way to take advantage of this ?

 

[5c0tt]

Well, I'm glad I started this thread.......there's a lot of very good info & discussions being posted.
Even though some of it's over my head for now, I still appreciate it.

Also, it's a great opportunity for me to celebrate.................

 

[5c0tt]

................my 50th post.

 

[sweetnubs]

well i've been down getting love in the hip-hop forum but thought I'd come back up here for a while where people speak english. What would nubs do you might ask? well let me tell you: as a general rule I try to use no processing before tracking and go straight from mic to preamp. The comment made about mic technique is correct. Don't eq until you've switched out different mics and moved them around. (with knowledge of their frequency responses) Actually the nubmeister sweeps sine waves through all of his mics and plots the frequency response himself (well really the tech does) You will notice it changes over time, especially on aging mics. We do a couple every week throughout the year. I rarely eq before going to tape and compress on occasion. I prefer choices at the mix stage. If I am just tracking I prefer to leave the mixing engineer choices. Sometimes if the players technique is very uneven I will compress to tape, just because they are driving me nuts and I get sick of fiddling with levels, you will find a lot of engineers actually compress to tape for this reason, despite what they may publicly say. As a general rule I use compression first in the chain, then eq. Especially if you are doing any boosting. If you boost pre-compressor you end up fighting your compressor because it will squash the frequencies you just boosted. Also your compresser can bring up the noise level from your eq's inherent noise floor. You will notice on most consoles that the insert point comes pre-eq, This is not a random occurence. Of course on higher end mixers you can switch from pre to post. I noticed on the frequency chart posted most adjustments indicated boosting at "such-and-such" a frequency. Boosting as a general rule is undesirable because it can increase phasing, and the reason I generally don't like it is because it also increases IM distortion. This is nubs eq primer: If you are a beginner and have parametric eq just leave the bandwith around 1.5- 2.0 octaves for now. We are looking for bad frequencies to take out. Apply a boost, maybe 6-10 db. Now grab your frequency pot and sweep. When you hear something you don't like gradually apply a cut until you hear the "bad" sound go away or it is minimized. An example might be a kick drum, you sometimes end up with a "cardboard" kind of sound around 300-450 hz. Look down on your console, if you have lot of boosts on a single channel or in general you are eq'ing improperly, especially if large bandwiths are being used. If you have 3 1.5 octave boosts you on a single channel you are essentially raising the overall level. Might as well just raise the fader and avoid distortion and phasing. Of course all of this is a general rule and i've seen fine engineers do the opposite, I don't know why but they do. Some argue compressing before tape increases s/n ratio vs. compressing during the mix, but I figure If your equipment is so bad you need to do this you should really concentrate on increasing the quality of your chain.

p.s. I just found a used 19" monitor for $12, nubz be kickin' it 'n shit bro's . . .

 

[cjacek]

Thanks nubs

Daniel