EQ for more snare, less hats.

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caveal

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I'm not sure if this is done to death, but I couldn't really find anything on it.

The drummer (me) hits the hats too loud, and even in the snare mic there is too much hat bleed. Any EQing, compression, or far out experimental ideas to bring the snare forward (or push the hats back) would be fantastic!

In case it helps there are two overheads, kick, snare, and a condenser capturing the toms. Re-recording isn't an option as I got some noise complaints getting this far :o

Al.
 
Trigger a sample for the snare track so that you can get the balls in the mix. Use a actual sample of your snare without the HH being hit, and support the sound of the snare.

There are other possible options but without having the tracks in front of me I have no way to really give advice.

Not to be redundant but this issue should have been taken care of when tracking. I know, it don't always work out that way.
 
I think Jimmy nailed it as far as your best bet is concerned. Other than that if you recorded a hat mic I would have said to flip the polarity on that but that might not have done enough.

Notching out the high hat with eq, gates are about all I can think of.
 
Someone just gave the idea of duplicating the snare track and overdriving it. Works amazingly well!
 
It was helpful. You obviously didn't know that before. Ignore it at your own risk.
 
Greg is right. You can adjust your playing "weight" when recording. You can play with the hats closed more often. Furthermore, some hats are louder than others.

I bought a used set of hi-hats that are smaller/darker/quieter and have a really sweet sounding "chick" when closed. They have waaaaayy less volume than my 14" rock hats and they record beautifully.

Then I read up on taking advantage of "dead zones" that most mic polar patterns reveal. This combination of fixes has completely solved my hi-hat problem.

Greg was just trying to open your eyes and make you ask questions.
 
Being able to self-mix as a drummer while recording is crucial. Since I only spot mic bass and snare, I rely on the overheads, so I have to rely on playing different drums/cymbals at different levels to get the correct balance. Also helps with live playing too.
 
Greg_L said:
It was helpful. You obviously didn't know that before. Ignore it at your own risk.
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Greg and I fight over almost everything but his advice to you was spot on.

Always do your best to fix problems at source rather than apply all sorts of remedial stuff later (when rarely works very well anyhow).

In this case, just practice playing your snare louder and your 'hats quieter--and play with mics and miking to minimise (you'll never eliminate it) bleed.
 
Blam. That sound you hear is your head exploding.

I wasn't try to rip on you or anything. You already got the advice you needed. What I said was for the future.....and I was typing from my phone. I'm not gonna write a book for you on that stupid thing.

You can't really EQ hat bleed out of a snare track. You can try, but you'll most likely hurt the snare's sound. The snap of snare wires lives in the same general area as the sizzle of hi-hats. A gate could work but if you got so much bleed that it's bothering you, gating the snare would probably result in an unnatural sound as it opens and closes. As mentioned already, sample replacing/enhancing is probably your best bet here. And also, as already mentioned, better playing and miking is the key for better drum tracks in the future. You're going to have to alter your playing style and/or drum and mic placements. I personally play my hats pretty high and when I mic the snare the butt of the mic is pointed at the hats. I'm not a very good drummer, but I can play in a way that my snare track isn't overrun with bleed. Bleed is natural and to be expected, but it doesn't have to be excessive.
 
I would sample your snare and layer that with the original snare track. For future reference play the hats quietly and move em as high as you can comfortably put them. The further they are from the mic the quieter they will be.
 
caveal said:
In future, post helpful comments :mad:
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A comment that stings you, that you may not like is not by it's very nature unhelpful.
You asked
The drummer (me) hits the hats too loud, and even in the snare mic there is too much hat bleed. Any EQing, compression, or far out experimental ideas to bring the snare forward (or push the hats back)
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and although Greg's comment may not help with your immediate problem {ie, these particular tracks}, you'd do well to heed it because otherwise you will revisit this scenario again and again. Which would be daft when a change in playing would eliminate the problem forever.
I played with a couple of keyboardists in band set ups for a number of years. Both were so used to being the leading instrument on their own that neither had any idea how to play with a bassist. I may as well not have been there. We'd have made a great field because all we created was mud. With the first guy, he was such a whizz that I was nervous to tell him to change his style and cut out all that "left hand like God" stuff and leave the bass playing to the bassist. I did mention it after a couple of years and he said that he now realized this and adjusted his style. Now he's a joy to hear in a playing or recording situation.
The other one I played with, I mentioned to her the same thing and she said all the bass players she played with told her the same thing and she made excuses as to how she had to change but couldn't and never adjusted.
Save yourself the hassle, become a servant of the song and get it right at source ~ for the future.
 
As already covered thoroughly, playing/tracking better is the best solution going forward.

As to far, out solutions for this instance:
Make a copy of your snare track. Sweep a narrow band-pass filter through the EQ until you find a place where only the snare hits are coming through. (It doesn't matter how good this sounds, you won't mix it in.) Turn off the main send on that track.
That track will give you a trigger/gate control for a variety of options. You can use it as a snare sample trigger for full-on snare replacement. You can use it as a side-chain noise gate to turn the snare (and/or OHs) way down (or off) when the snare itself isn't being hit. Etc.
 
Greg_L said:
In the future, play better and mic your stuff better.
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I saw this thread and this was exactly what I was going to post.

Unfortunately, it seems he doesn't realize that "capturing the sound at the source" requires something like this...
 
The way I remedy this - and it's not a old trick - is to 1. Make sure the drums are not too near a wall on the snare/hi hat side, 2. use the mic's polar pattern to reject what you want and to pick up what you don't, 3. find a bit of foam and construct some sort of barrier between the snare and the hi hat. That last one might take some creativity but you're looking to block mostly the top end from creeping in. It can work wonders and get you around 3-6dB hi hat bleed attenuation.

But I'll also have to agree with Greg on this one. The BEST way is to coach the drummer to play the hi hat softer and place your mics properly. It'll be a HELL of a lot easier than trying to fix it down the line.

Jimmy, at this point, probably gave the best fix.

Cheers :)
 
caveal said:
I'm not sure if this is done to death, but I couldn't really find anything on it.

The drummer (me) hits the hats too loud, and even in the snare mic there is too much hat bleed. Any EQing, compression, or far out experimental ideas to bring the snare forward (or push the hats back) would be fantastic!

In case it helps there are two overheads, kick, snare, and a condenser capturing the toms. Re-recording isn't an option as I got some noise complaints getting this far :o

Al.
Click to expand...

Was in on a scoring session and watched an engineer use an old strobe tuner to find the frequency of a cricket screaming during an outdoor interview.

Once he found the frequency he patched in a nice graphic eq, pulled down that frequency slider to bottom, boosted up all the others a few DB and the cricket practically disappeared from the track.

The funny thing was that the girl’s voice on the track was barely changed; great way to fix a screw up.
Maybe the same idea could work to lessen the amount of hi-hat bleed on your snare track, to the point you can live with the track as-is.

Might be able to produce similar results with a parametric eq too, just need to get a strobe tuner to try it.
 
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