Enhancing a studio

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ToneE

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This is the first time I'm writing here and do it since I leave far in Finland and do not have the possibility to try all the equipment before purchasing. I am running a commercial production studio and have invested quite a lot in my equipment but I'm still not quite happy with the sound I get. The sound is what many people may still consider excellent and the produced songs have been getting a lot of airplay so the basis is okay, it's just that after spending this much money I'd like to make some more moves to get things closer to perfect. I Really appreciate if there is someone with enough knowledge and will use some of his time to advise me!!! The mail is long so even short "isolated" opinions are much appreciated!

At the moment the main consern is the lead vocal sound. For the main microphone I've been using a Soundelux E47, I also have e.g. Gefell UMT70, Neumann U87, Oktavas etc. The main pre is GR ME-1NV plugged to Yamaha 02r96 and then via ADAT to RME 9652 (in G5 / Logic 7). I also have API 3124+ and a few cheaper amps. When mixing the lead vocal is sent through UA 1176 and then 02r96. The sound I get is quite okay but a bit harsh (esp. midrange) and lacking the beautiful high-end sizzle that many records of my "competitors" have. I get closer by running the signal louder to the 1176 but then the sound and breath noises get too compressed. I know the first thing is to check the studio's acoustics but I was wondering if e.g. E251C or Brauner would be a better choice for the main mike? And maybe something like Voicebox or LA-2A instead of what I'm using now?
For the reverb I have e.g. Lexicon 224, PCM80, MPX-1 and t.c. M2000.
I have an unused TL Audio C-5021, maybe plug that into the recording path? Or plug 1176 to recording path (instead of mixing path) and get something else for the mixing. I also have UAD-1.

This is getting far too long so I'll try to shorten this mail :) So I'm using the AD and DA of 02r96. Is the difference really big with Apogee or something similar? I've also looped the main outputs of 02r96 to the old 02r where I have the Finalizer plug-in, even though I'm using the digital inputs could this be eating the sound drastically compared to having e.g. a dedicated Finalizer?

I've invested so much in my equipment I'd rather keep the costs reasonable so one option is also for me to trade something I wouldn't need so much, e.g. maybe I oculd do with Gefell UMT70 and sell the Neumann U87 if I decided to buy e.g. Soundelux E251 or Brauner? Should anyone need if I could mail a sample of something I've done and a vocal sound I'm aiming at. Thank you SO much for your help!!!
 
perhaps you could try a 1073 type preamp. the GR has no eq on it, and I have heard (but never tired) that the 1073's high band eq can get that "high end sizzle". I think the 251 and brauner are FET mics?? a tube mic might also provide that sizzle. but I have no experience with the gear at that price level. maybe if you call vintage king they can help you out. one other thing to try might just be a different angle with the mics you already have..just really focus on that sound and you might be able to get it.
 
Hi Falken and thanks for your input! Yeah, 1073 could be it although it's hard to imagine a pre would make such a big difference since the Great River I'm using should have some character already and between the few mid and high priced preamps the differences have been wuite subtle. But I haven't tried the 1073 and possibly the EQ in it could be the answer... Actually the Soundelux E47 I'm using is a tube mic but I found the tube effect fairly mild. Thanks again and hopefully someone else will share their time a bit as well... :)
 
ToneE, welcome aboard! I think it´s a good idea to post some of the vocal tracks that your referring to, so everyone can hear what´s going on...
You´ll get some advice for sure...
 
ToneE,
www.gearslutz.com is a great resource for highend reviews. Many professional engineers, producers, etc. and even gear manufacturers post there frequently.

The two things that hit me were your A/D/A conversion and possibly summing. I assume you use the o2r96 to sum? Or do you sum ITB? Either way you may benefit from better A/D/A conversion such as Apogee AD-16x and DA-16x and a summing setup such as a tonelux summing mixer, or this: http://www.mercenary.com/twobusupasba1.html

You already have the the pres so get the Folcrom/EQ/Drawmer and see what you can accomplish.

Also, are your recordings mastered in house or do you send them out? Could there be a benefit to sending your mixes through a high end mastering EQ to give a little sheen to the highend? I dont' know. I'm just throwing out suggestions. Good luck!!
 
Tone, on this board, you'll find a lot of guys have a hard enough time telling the difference between an sm57 and a 58. :D I think you'll be hard-pressed to find a lot of guys who are doing comercial work. A few, granted, but for the most part you might find some of these guys hang out more frequently at other boards.

With that said, I don't exactly see any glaring weaknesses in your signal chain. You've obviously got perfectly fine microphones, and your mic pres and compressors are certainly "up to the task" if you ask me. I mean, honestly, if someone gets to the level where they're using that kind of signal chain, and they're still complaining about something ... then you really need to start looking closer to home for the source of the problem. :D

I'm afraid at some point you need to understand there is a very human element to all of this ... and that there is more personal skill involved in this sort of thing than the skill to select and purchase good gear. If you really want your stuff to sound better than your competitors, then you need to outsmart them, out-learn them, and out-skill them. You, personally, have to be able to bring something to the table, other than your ability to set up and plug in a really expensive microphone. My two cents.


Good luck.
 
ToneE said:
This is the first time I'm writing here and do it since I leave far in Finland and do not have the possibility to try all the equipment before purchasing. I am running a commercial production studio and have invested quite a lot in my equipment but I'm still not quite happy with the sound I get. The sound is what many people may still consider excellent and the produced songs have been getting a lot of airplay so the basis is okay, it's just that after spending this much money I'd like to make some more moves to get things closer to perfect. I Really appreciate if there is someone with enough knowledge and will use some of his time to advise me!!! The mail is long so even short "isolated" opinions are much appreciated!

At the moment the main consern is the lead vocal sound. For the main microphone I've been using a Soundelux E47, I also have e.g. Gefell UMT70, Neumann U87, Oktavas etc. The main pre is GR ME-1NV plugged to Yamaha 02r96 and then via ADAT to RME 9652 (in G5 / Logic 7). I also have API 3124+ and a few cheaper amps. When mixing the lead vocal is sent through UA 1176 and then 02r96. The sound I get is quite okay but a bit harsh (esp. midrange) and lacking the beautiful high-end sizzle that many records of my "competitors" have. I get closer by running the signal louder to the 1176 but then the sound and breath noises get too compressed. I know the first thing is to check the studio's acoustics but I was wondering if e.g. E251C or Brauner would be a better choice for the main mike? And maybe something like Voicebox or LA-2A instead of what I'm using now?
For the reverb I have e.g. Lexicon 224, PCM80, MPX-1 and t.c. M2000.
I have an unused TL Audio C-5021, maybe plug that into the recording path? Or plug 1176 to recording path (instead of mixing path) and get something else for the mixing. I also have UAD-1.

This is getting far too long so I'll try to shorten this mail :) So I'm using the AD and DA of 02r96. Is the difference really big with Apogee or something similar? I've also looped the main outputs of 02r96 to the old 02r where I have the Finalizer plug-in, even though I'm using the digital inputs could this be eating the sound drastically compared to having e.g. a dedicated Finalizer?

I've invested so much in my equipment I'd rather keep the costs reasonable so one option is also for me to trade something I wouldn't need so much, e.g. maybe I oculd do with Gefell UMT70 and sell the Neumann U87 if I decided to buy e.g. Soundelux E251 or Brauner? Should anyone need if I could mail a sample of something I've done and a vocal sound I'm aiming at. Thank you SO much for your help!!!
Click to expand...

Man!!! I've got way less gear than you and i complain less!!! Sometin ain't right. I have no clue what could be wrong with your sound but you've gotta be pushin a nice sound with them gems. Hey, if you don't like your stuff, give it to me!!!!! :D I'll gladly take it!!! Don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing you at all. I'm glad your not another one of those "best mic" guys!! I'm a retired "best mic guy".
 
Thank you guys so much for your replies! I'm afraid this is a busy day for me so I can't write back to each of you although it'd be nice. Anyway, there's a lot of good points there, e.g. the AD/DA conversion is probably true. But I did some tests yesterday and it seems like the better mics and preamps I have now are bringing the (inadequate) acoustics of the room. There's clearly a midrange peak which explains some of the harshness that is very hard to correct by equalising withoug losing some of the presence. And obviously the sound of E47-Great river-UA1176 doesn't give quite the shine to the top end that e.g. Blue Kiwi-Avalon 737-LA2A does. So don't get me wrong, the sound is okay but I'm trying to get that extra little detail. I've collected gear seriously for almost ten years so now that I'm so close it'd be great to get that last little bit fine as well you know. I'm sure part of that is still due to the user (although to be honest I don't consider myself a beginner at all) and room acoustics. Thank you so much for your mails!
 
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