Enclosure for recording guitar amp

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mikeh

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I posted this question in the guitar thread and then realized this may be a better place.

I'm moving into a condo and am concerned about guitar amp volume. I'm thinking about building an enclosure to allow me to mic a small 15-30W combo (like a Fender Champ or a Roland Cube) but avoid too much room sound.

I have a POD & a J-Station, which I will use for many things - but sometimes a mic'd cab is better.

Does anyone have any do's or don't that can save me some trial & error???
 
Hmmm, I would think it would be difficult to achieve decent isolation without it sounding like you're recording in a box. And mic choice would have an effect. What mics do you have on hand? Also, if a cardiod mic is too enclosed is starts to act as an omni (which may or may not be a bad thing in this case). I also imagine you'd want to raise it off the floor somehow.

I once recorded one of my bands, and we had the guitar amp in the same room with the drums. We tried to block in the amp as much as possible to reduce bleed to the drum mics. I can't remember exactly what we used, but it was very makeshift. I think I have pictures somewhere. We ended up with a good tone, but there was definitely something a little, I dunno, smothered about it.

That's not much help, I know.
 
Well, this won't get you great isolation, but it will cut a few decibels. Just build a pipe frame and drape multiple layers of heavy blankets over it.

The blankets should cover all sides, because sound can escape from all sides.

The innermost blanket can be kind of a fluffy kind so that sound does not reverb around the enclosure. Thou outer layers should be heavy and dense, like moving blankets.

Again, not perfect enclosure, but cheap, movable, and able to cut a couple of decibels from the neighbors.
 
build a box, seal it as much as you can, and add as many layers of mass to it as you can (multiple drywall layers or plywood layers)
 
notbradsohner said:
build a box, seal it as much as you can, and add as many layers of mass to it as you can (multiple drywall layers or plywood layers)
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If you go the hard box route put a layer of absobent material on the inside or the sound is going to bounce around like crazy inside the box and sound like mud.
 
Thanks fro your replys.

I may try Innovation's suggestion for a short term experiment (I've already got moving blankets and PVC - from other "projects" so there would be no cost - and only 1/2 hour of labor).

I did get a response in the guitar forum about a box (from someone who felt they got good results) - so I may also try that.

I'm also going to look into some of the "boutique" small watt tube amps - they are expensive, but I've heard good things. I've read about various power soak devices (anyone have any experiance???).
 
Get a used icebox/freezer.
Punch a hole for you mic cable and power.
Stuff hole gaps with whatever..socks??
Stick amp in on its back inside the freezer with mic and cover
with heavy comforter.

shut the door.
Play

Most freezers are 1.5 inches thick with 2 sheet of aluminum covering the foam
insulation. Pretty good isolation, semi portable and can be used for storing gear in case of a break in...

Who looks in a freezer for gear?


SoMm
 
"Who looks in a freezer for gear?" - A hungry burglar??!? :=)

I agree about the isolation; I ran a (pretty non-scientific) test last year on this; I cleared a shelf in my frig, set a boom box inside (playing on batteries, no cord messing up the door seal) and, with the door open, cranked it til my spl meter read 90 dB(C) on peaks; then, without moving anything, I closed the door (typical newer magnetic seal) and dropped the spl to 54 dB(C) - so we're looking at 36 dB reduction (YMMV, of course)

I posted this info here probably a year ago in response to a similar question, along with SoMM's basic recommendations, but the whole thing's probably lost in the ether somewhere; in addition to SoMM's suggestions, I'd look for a large enough (inside measurements) box to have room for some thick rockwool instead of the foam;

Also, if you can get a FREEZER that's no longer alive, ditch the compressor and extra crap, and lay the box on its BACK; this lets you put the (reasonable sized, NOT Marshall double stack) amp near one end, and have plenty of room for some space between the mic and the speaker, and plenty of insulation to kill the high frequency flutter, modal problems, etc -

The reason for a freezer instead of a frig; all one area inside, better sound, more room. The downside to a full size box (instead of a "dorm" size one) is obviously floor space, so if you're cramped this won't work...

Reason for laying the box on its back - you can open the door (may need a prop stick or something while it's open) and arrange amp, speaker, mic, etc, without disturbing anything else; then, when you lower the door, everything inside will stay as it was; plus, gravity helps the magnetic seal work a bit better (no, I don't have measurements on this part :=)

Keep in mind when shopping for a "boutique" amp with low wattage - THERE AREN'T ANY??!?

OK, let me clarify that - it takes 10 TIMES as many watts to get 6 dB louder - so, going the other way, dropping from 50 watts to 5 watts only lowers the SPL by 6 dB; if the 50 watter can play 100 dB (at "11" for best crunch) then the 5 watter will STILL be (under the same settings) at 94 dB - then, a HALF-watt amp would crank out 88 dB at full volume...

I've seen one little "boutique" (spelled E-X-P-E-N-S-I-V-E) amp, forget where, that put out 1/4 watt and cost something like $600 or something - just plain ridiculous. So, unless you're rich enough to afford real roadies and RBDG for your studio design, the box approach makes a lot more sense in most cases.

After listening to a few "V-amps" (no, not Behringer; couple of pods, 3 by Digitech) I've come to the conclusion that one of the things missing is what you bought the sim box for in the first place - REAL interaction between room, guitar, and speaker. without this variable, I've not heard an amp sim that really brings it home. I've seen posts by a couple other guys who've experimented with this; concensus was that an amp sim sounds fine, as long as you RUN IT THROUGH SPEAKERS AND MIC THE SPEAKERS ??!?... (Can you say, "Guitar Amplifier"...) kinda defeats the purpose, no?

So, is using an amp sim and running it through speakers and micing it a total waste of time? Nooo, if you don't need much isolation and DO want a plethora (sometimes a plethora and a half :=) of tonal choices, and STILL want something that's portable enough to throw in a bag and stay mobile, and that you can use to blow your own brains out at 2 AM using phones...

What's the point of all this freakin' rambling? Damned if I know... Steve
 
What's the point of all this freakin' rambling? Damned if I know... Steve
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Whatsmatter Steve, isn't the gators, backhoes, yours and other forums, and the eternal "honey do's" keeping you busy enough? :p
fitZ
 
knightflyroom said:
I have a Fender Cybertwin I purchased about two years ago, and I'll disagree with you here. If I were to record off the XLR, TRS or s/pdif out then yes, the room, environment and atmosphere completely goes away and is never recorded, however if I were to mic this amp, all that is back in the mix.

The obvious advantage of the Cybertwin, Pod Pro et. al. is simply this - why house 10 amps, 10 cabinets, of which are loaded with speakers in different ways, when one of these fancy gizmos can at least create a close enough approximation to the amp/speaker/cabinet you're trying to simulation?

I don't know about you, but I have dollar and space limitations in my home studio. A decade ago plus when I had a pro studio, we had in a large walk-in room area many amps/cabinets ranging from Ampeg to Peavey to Marshall to Fender, and a lot of stuff in between. It was an awful lot of money tied up in amps and such, and getting them in and out of the room was a real pain in the ass (the room was about 10'x10', jam-packed with amps and cabinets, and the one we needed for any given day was always in the far back corner! you know how that goes!).

Anyway, I'm glad I have the Cybertwin. I have to admit its not a perfect simulation, but its darn good. One of the things I particularly liked about the cybertwin, and primarily why I chose it, is that it really is an analog amplifier, and it has multiple preamp circuits, multiple tone circuits, and multiple post-tone circuits, and as you select different presents, the amplifier rewires those analog circuits using relays. So the Cybertwin actually rewires the audio path to match the amplifier its simulating. Then after the effects loop (if its patched), there is a series of DSP's that add flanging, chorus, delay, etc, and the s/pdif out is tapped right there, and the audio continues to a D/A converter that feeds the power amp for the celestian speakers, as well as the XLR and TRS analog outputs.

That other bit of "glitz" that is cool though utterly not too useful, is that the knobs are powered - as you change presents, all the knobs short of the master volume, rotate to their "patch" position, so you have visual as to how the amp is set.

Anyway, I like this amp a lot as you can tell. When I purchased it, I was really in the store to buy a Pod-Pro to do as you described - guitar to pod pro, pod pro via s/pdif out to the console. I happened to see this while wandering the floor, waiting for the pod pro to be pulled out of the back room, and I changed my mind in about 25 seconds.

The analog circuits being rewired by relays, is what I considered the "key" selling point.
Click to expand...
 
And we're dis-agreeing...??? How, exactly? You're saying that your Cyber twin lets you have lotsa presets and good sound, as long as you mic it AND the room, but doesn't sound as "live" when you DI it - I'm saying that the simulators, when run through speakers and mic'd, sound more realistic than the DI approach, but that they have lotsa tonal options - Po-TAY-to, Puh-TAH-to... Steve
 
"Whatsmatter Steve, isn't the gators, backhoes, yours and other forums, and the eternal "honey do's" keeping you busy enough?
fitZ"

Close, grasshopper, very close...

Speakin' of close, you free Friday the 14th of this month? That's the plan for the acoustic shootout @ Kurt's place we talked about before; email me for directions, etc... Steve
 
Thank you all for you insight. I never thought about the fridge/freezer idea - which makes a whole lot of sense.

While space is somewhat of an issue - getting a good recorded sound is the point of having the studio, so the best use of the space to achieve good sound is what matters (even if that means finding room for a freezer).

Thanks again - I have much to consider!!!
 
knightfly said:
And we're dis-agreeing...??? How, exactly? You're saying that your Cyber twin lets you have lotsa presets and good sound, as long as you mic it AND the room, but doesn't sound as "live" when you DI it - I'm saying that the simulators, when run through speakers and mic'd, sound more realistic than the DI approach, but that they have lotsa tonal options - Po-TAY-to, Puh-TAH-to... Steve
Click to expand...

I reread your post, then mine, and I guess we agree. Not sure why I thought we didn't.

I am either getting old, or grossly undercaffienated. my apologies.
 
No prob; I'll send you the membership kit for BFA, I'm a long-time member (that's Brain Farts Anonymous, btw) :=)
 
BFA, I'm a long-time member (that's Brain Farts Anonymous, btw) :=)
Click to expand...

Ha! Talk about brain farts. I'm a member and didn't even know it!! :rolleyes: :D
 
That's how you know you ARE a member; someone ELSE has to tell you, and tell you, and tell you.........
 
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