Electronic drums sets

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Outlaws

Outlaws

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Has anyone recorded with electronic drums? Do they sound as good when tracked as live drums do. I tried some at a Guitar Center, and thought they sounded really good, but I am worried that they will still produce that fake sound.
 
Electric drums have come a long way in the last few years. Guitar Center's brands, I think are pretty limited. If you go onto the discussion forum at www.vdrums.com you can learn alot about the differnt brands.

You can always buld your own! (minus drum module :) )
 
outlaws, if you're talking about the roland kits, beware. when you play them on their own they sound great but fitting them in a mix can be difficult. i know from experience. i'm not a pro, but i was in a similar situation last summer. i sat down at a roland kit and thought, this is great, i don't have to get mics, preamps, etc.

then i tried to mix in the kit to a couple songs and quickly ran into trouble. i use mostly samples now, but if i had the option, i would just mic up a real kit.
 
have we really given up on tuning acoustic drums that we have to resort to nonsense such as eletronic kits?
 
I am just looking at this in a sense of, I can mic drums in a living room with less that stellar acoustics, or I can use samples in the electric kit. If the electric sounds good, then I can get the drums out of the demo catagory.
 
Electric Kits

Hey Outlaws it depends what type of music you are playing I mean every style needs something driffrent altough for any style of music i prefer acoustic drums and you can mic them up and they will sound really good just got to tune them right and make sure you get the sound that you want!
 
I use Rolad V-Drums at my "project studio" - since I do not have a good sounding drum room. In addition to the Roland sounds (most of which I have "tweaked") I also trigger Alesis sounds and to a less degree, some samples.

In other studios I may bring my V-Drums or I may bring one of 3 accoustic kits (Maple, Birch, Mahogany) - or a combination. It depends on the project, the room, the mic's available, etc.

In most cases, the electronic sounds are good enough for demo's, jingles and even independant CD projects destined for mastering. In particular, the snare sounds and kick sounds can be tweaked to sound very real. Toms are more difficult and electronic cymbals pretty much suck, no matter what you do.

It's a trade off (like most things in music and in life). Do electronics sound as good as a great kit, properly tuned, in a great sounding room runing through great mics and great pres? Probably not. Do they sound good enough for the majority of projects done in home studios - I think so.

It all depends on what you are looking to achieve. However, I have noticed (and have heard this from others - including our own Blue Bear) sometimes the electronic drums don't sit in a mix as well as real drums. For lack of a better word, the e-drums don't have the same "presence" as real drums - (in particular with tom sounds.
 
There are pros and cons to electric sets. They can sound great in some styles and horrible in others. As usual the outcome falls into the "personal taste" colum.

Electric drums sound great in the style of my music.
 
unless you play in a def lep tribute band or you play drums for eminem, electronic drums are worthless. worthless.
 
Negatives....negatives...

I wouldn't mind betting that most of the negative posts here come from drummers who have little experience with modern Ekits. I have a Yamaha DTX as well as an acoustic and, although I prefer to record with my acoustics (I play hard rock bordering on thrash metal) I have recorded with the Ekit and have got some good results.

Ekits are superb for quiet practice, quiet recording and getting all those different sounds you can't get with a standard 5-piece. The V-drums are superb but (imho) over-priced. Also (from a drummers point of view) an Ekit being played will always sound better than a drum machine, because you add a human element to the whole thing.

Dave
 
Re: Negatives....negatives...

Dave52 said:
I wouldn't mind betting that most of the negative posts here come from drummers who have little experience with modern Ekits. I have a Yamaha DTX as well as an acoustic and, although I prefer to record with my acoustics (I play hard rock bordering on thrash metal) I have recorded with the Ekit and have got some good results.

Ekits are superb for quiet practice, quiet recording and getting all those different sounds you can't get with a standard 5-piece. The V-drums are superb but (imho) over-priced. Also (from a drummers point of view) an Ekit being played will always sound better than a drum machine, because you add a human element to the whole thing.

Dave
Click to expand...

Electronic Drums are quiet. I like doing drum tracks at odd hours of the day/night. You brought up that you like V-Drums. Have you had a chance to demo a Ddrum4 module by Clavia?

Acoustic drums are awsome. The dynamic range and feel a Drummer can achive on a drum throne has not been captured on an electric drum module.

Then again, I am first and foremost... A Bass Player.
 
Thanks for all the responses. I am looking at this from the point that even though a good acoustic set properly mic'd in a nice room will sound better, if all that is not available, I might have to go this route. I do think for what it is, the benefit out ways the loss for me. I liked all the sounds I could get out of those Roland VDrums. I think they will sit fine in the mix, I hope.
 
Outlaws said:
I liked all the sounds I could get out of those Roland VDrums. I think they will sit fine in the mix, I hope.
Click to expand...

Famous last words! I thought the same, now i don't use any of the sounds on the roland module unless the tune requires brushes. I trigger samples instead. Much better imo. Check out "the blues" on lt. bob's site for a recent track i did using samples triggered from a roland kit.
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/?aid=1466/singles

Here's an example of a track i did using the brush kit from the td-8. #4 "old yeller" on http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1698&alid=299

And one more example of the brush kit:
http://www.skydaddy.com/music/living_is_easy.m3u
 
Eric,

Checked out you and Bob, man that rocks.

The drums sound totaly real to me.

Where did you get those samples? How do you hook the samples to your pads? I know nothing.

Also, you are one hell of a drummer, beautifull!!

I been looking at the roland V-Club, with the TD-6 module, what do you think?

Everytime I go to Sam Ash, I bang on them mercilously, completely out of time, untill they ask me to leave, haha!

Also, can E-drums be recorded, and quantized for playback?

GT
 
GT, thanks for the nice comments. The samples on that Lt. Bob tune are a mix of Blue Jay Drums and the NI studio drums.

I played the along to the track using my v-kit and recorded the midi events in Sonar. I then loaded a bunch of differnet kits into Kontakt and used a Sonar drum map to route the individual drums and the samples that sounded best. So the roland sounds aren't even being used. I've found that the sample libraries are much more realistic (cause they are real drums) than the Roland drum modeler.

So if you're going this route the cheapest e-kit will do cause I think they will all send out midi data that you can capture with your DAW and then do what you want as far as samples once it's in your computer, quantize it if you want, speed it up, slow it down, edit in different hits and stuff. I'm not real good with midi data editting so I just capture it and map it afterwards.
 
electric drums

hey outlaw if your going to mic up an acoustic set get some AUDIX MICS especially for drums they are awesome we use one in my church on the kickdrum
 
I find it funny when people refer to acoustic drums as "real". Is an electric guitar not a "real" guitar?
Anyway...down off my soap box.
I have a roland V-session set with the TD-10 expanded tdw-1, and get very, very good results from them. No more troube getting them into the mix than A's. Infact alot of times it's easier. The thing to remember is that like any piece of electronic music gear you have to spend ALOT of time tweaking them. I found all the presests useless just like any processor. But after a bit of time and work, I love them. However, I do agree that they
are way over priced. The sequencer is a joke, and it could use some better outputs, but much easier in some ways than having to mic a kit all the time.
 
I never really got into Roland drum machines or their V-drums.
Though, I do love their sound modules.
I think a more powerful and flexible configuration would be
to get a DrumKat controller and Roland sound module (not drum
module).
One of the best modules I have ever come across is the
Roland SC-880 or SK-88Pro(same as SC-880, but with 3 octave keyboard). They have 64 note polyphony and two sets of Midi inputs/outputs (A/B) allowing 32 channel midi. For example, you could use Midi input A for your live triggering, and Midi input B for input from a sequencer. Remember, this is a Sound Module, so you could have full orchestration of ALL instruments (not just drums).
If money were no object, I think I would get the top of the
DrumKat and a powerful laptop with one of those new firewire
midi/audio output interfaces(the best of all worlds and completely
upgradable).
 
I wouldn't do a live gig with V-Drums, but like a few other folks have said, I'm in a small studio and trying to get a good recording from acoustics is a bitch.

I don't remember who said it was difficult to "fit them into the mix" or "beware of Roland". My experience has been a bit better I guess. I'm on a Roland V-Stage set and I'm very impressed with the controlability and depth of sound available going into the recording.

I've been running one channel direct into my DAW, and room micing a small 60watt keyboard amp on a second channel. Depending on the mix, you can make them sound like a studio kit or a miced set of acoustics in an arena.

I tried the solid rubber pads and didn't care for the feel. Upgrading to the tunable heads has made a world of difference.
I may hang some real brass with over-heads and compare them to the samples from the TD-8.

Anyway, preparing a kit for recording is all about adjustment and experimenting whether they're acoustic or electronic.
 
You can bang on anything as long as you know how, right?

I got a Roland TD-6 and a Sonor S-Class Acoustic Set, and I love both (its like blondes or redheads, all a matter of taste).
In fact over the years my acoustic drumming improved through the use of my edrums, no joke. You learn to play more loose and relaxed . Im playin drums for over 30 years now, so I guess by now I should know.
Considering the mixdown on edrums, one always has the possibility to record without the buildin effects of the processor (reverb, gate, etc.), so you can work on each track later on. I also used combinations of loops and maybe only bassdrum and snare.
Miking an acoustic set after all is still a bitch and for most homerecorders simply not suitable.
Anyway 70 % of my recording was done with edrums and some people (musicians!!!) couldn't tell the difference.

Yours truly
Ray
 
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