Electronic Drum Kits

[Illsidgus]

I don't have a drum kit but am looking for an option to add drum tracks to my recordings. Are electronic drum kits a good option, do they sound okay or do they sound like crap for recording? I need something other than my Roland keyboard synth drums.

 

[Tadpui]

It depends on how you use them and what your budget is.

I've had good luck with a moderately priced e-kit, using it as a MIDI controller to drive drum sampler software like EZDrummer and Steven Slate Drums. In this case, the e-kit doesn't provide the audio, just the MIDI data, and the sampler software provides the actual sounds. So the kit sounds as good as the sampling software.

You can also record the audio output of an e-kit's "brain" or control module. It's less flexible, but if your kit has good-sounding samples built-in, then you don't have to fork out more cash for software on top of the cost of the kit itself.

 

[Illsidgus]

It depends on how you use them and what your budget is.

I've had good luck with a moderately priced e-kit, using it as a MIDI controller to drive drum sampler software like EZDrummer and Steven Slate Drums. In this case, the e-kit doesn't provide the audio, just the MIDI data, and the sampler software provides the actual sounds. So the kit sounds as good as the sampling software.

You can also record the audio output of an e-kit's "brain" or control module. It's less flexible, but if your kit has good-sounding samples built-in, then you don't have to fork out more cash for software on top of the cost of the kit itself.

Thank you for your reply. The software route is not an option for me as I record on a Tascam 244. I guess what I am wondering is will anyone listening to an e-kit on a recording know that it is an e-kit and not a real drum kit? There are so many variables that constitute the acoustic signature of real drums that I am sceptical as to whether an e-kit can reproduce that organic sound and feel. Or maybe I should just give up on the idea of having drums on my recordings.
Again thanks for your reply and any other help you may have to offer.

 

[Tadpui]

I've really only heard a few e-kits' built-in sounds. My Yamaha kit has okay sounding samples built-in, but not nearly as convincing as most software samplers though. I think that you're talking about pretty high-dollar kits if you want ultra-realistic samples built-in. Those Roland and upper-tier Yamaha kits get pretty dang expensive. Features that help make fake drums sound more organic would include multi-zone pads, chokable cymbals, realistic-action pedals...but those features all come at a premium, and so do the more sophisticated sound modules that would support those features and would contain higher quality samples.

I think that there are a couple of Alesis users around here, maybe they can chime in with first-hand experience of their kits' built-in samples. I'd bet that YouTube has some demos of various kits and the sounds that they're capable of. Simply having velocity sensitive pads is a big step up from the old-fashioned "machine gun" drum machines.

Here's a video review of the DTX400 kit that I have. It goes through all of the built-in kits. They're pretty good for an entry-level e-kit, but not exactly world-class: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67GMsAe2suw

 

[Farview]

Most of the rock and metal (and some country) CD's produced in the last 10 years have some sort of drum sampling going on. So samples are not all bad. It will also be a step up from a cheap drum set, in a bad room, through cheap mics, mixed down to stereo into a portastudio.

It is probably the cleanest way to get a real drum performance into your recorder. The actual sound of the drums won't matter as long as they are somewhat appropriate to the song. Most drum brains have enough selection to get you something close to what the song needs.

 

[Illsidgus]

Most of the rock and metal (and some country) CD's produced in the last 10 years have some sort of drum sampling going on. So samples are not all bad. It will also be a step up from a cheap drum set, in a bad room, through cheap mics, mixed down to stereo into a portastudio.

Thanks for your reply Jay. The use of samples and everything sounds very daunting to me. I guess I really have turned into an old fogey. I wish I still had my first drum set. I got it back in 68 or 69 (19 not 18) and cost around $70.00, it was a used Ludwig set with a snare, kick, riding tom, floor tom, high hat, riding cymbal and a floor cymbal.

I will have to study on this for awhile and see what I can come up with.

 

[Farview]

Depending on the style of music and playing style, it can sound perfectly natural. As long as you don't make the cymbals too prominent in the mix, you will be fine. The high end loss from the cassette will help that too.

The cymbals tend to be the give-away that it is an e-drum set. That and really fast rolls tend to machine-gun. But again, it will be better sound quality than you are likely to get with real drums in your situation.

 

[Guitargodgt]

I say it depends on how much you want to shell for a kit if it sounds good.

Lower end kits sound like crap no matter what you do IMO. However there are a few higher end kits that do ok.

 

[agapetos]

Hey Brother,

just saw your thread and if I understand you correctly....I have a Roland V-drum kit and it blew me away and still does.

Mostly after playing acoustic drums I got so sick and tired of tuning drums, buying skins, fixing adding and geeesh....

You can tell its an electronic drum kit but it sounds fantastic. Almost not noticeable and it has rim shot, sensors that
senses how hard you hit and where on the "skin" and mine came with 99 drum sets....go on you tube and listen
to the different sets and see what you think. They use real drums to record with and there are a million settings
u can use and of course MIDI in and out so you can adjust and correct as you feel like later.

my to cents

Here is a taste: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wADzoNJjh1U

Michael

 

[MrUserNameIV]

It depends on how you use them and what your budget is.

I've had good luck with a moderately priced e-kit, using it as a MIDI controller to drive drum sampler software like EZDrummer and Steven Slate Drums. In this case, the e-kit doesn't provide the audio, just the MIDI data, and the sampler software provides the actual sounds. So the kit sounds as good as the sampling software.

You can also record the audio output of an e-kit's "brain" or control module. It's less flexible, but if your kit has good-sounding samples built-in, then you don't have to fork out more cash for software on top of the cost of the kit itself.

I'll second that. Electronic kits usually sound fake standalone but controlling a good drum library via midi it can sound exactly like the real thing.

 

[Guitargodgt]

There are uppper end brains that don't sound so bad. The Pearl redbox is pretty good actually.

However IIRC this was because you can load superior drummer stuff into the brain.

 

[dainbramage]

you can load superior drummer stuff into the brain.

Imagine that! (sorry, couldn't resist)

I'm happy with the way an old TD-3 kit sounds as long as I connect it with MIDI and use it for triggering Steven Slate samples. The kit in itself sounds horribly fake without it but I guess that could be cool for some electronica stuff. As someone else has mentioned though, fast rolls sound very robotic/like a machine gun.

 

[minerman]

It depends on how you use them and what your budget is.

I've had good luck with a moderately priced e-kit, using it as a MIDI controller to drive drum sampler software like EZDrummer and Steven Slate Drums. In this case, the e-kit doesn't provide the audio, just the MIDI data, and the sampler software provides the actual sounds. So the kit sounds as good as the sampling software.

Bumping this thread because I'm thinking pretty hard about getting an e-kit for my music, as I'm really tired of programming all the drum parts to my songs....Of course, recording the MIDI, I will have to go back & "fix" my fuck-ups (I'm not a drummer....at all....lol), but I do have a pretty good idea of what my songs need drum-wise, & getting my loops/software to even get in the ballpark is really frustrating at times to say the least, & seems like it takes forever to get a song ready for the actual tracking of the bass/guitars/etc.....

The kit you mentioned you own is about $500, & I could probably swing that, as I really don't need anything that's high-end, but I do need it to work with my DAW/interface at low-latency....I use Reaper & a Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6, & for me, both have been really good with my pc....

So, would the DTX400 a pretty decent e-kit, that would suit my needs??? Of course, I'd wanna save some $$$ if possible, & there are less expensive kits, but I don't wanna go so cheap that I get a turd/useless e-kit that wouldn't serve my needs...

Thanks in advance..

 

[Guitargodgt]

If you are using it to trigger midi then you really don't need anything special. I'm using a used TD-3 kit that I got on craigslist for $400 and it works great.

The things that are important:

1. Comfort (so I prefer mesh heads as banging on rubber for a long time sucks)
2. Trigger reliability, you do not want to deal with a shit load of mis triggers. It sucks.
3. How many triggers you want to run at once (I use a standard 5 piece with 2 crashes, ride and hats).

How good the module sounds is irrelevant because you just need it to trigger midi reliably.

 

[blaumph2cool]

look for deals on craigslist. you can find decent electric kits used.

 

[ashcat_lt]

minerman - Unless you're already decent at drums (you said you're not) or really want to put in the time and effort to learn, then an e-kit is not going to make anything easier or faster for you. It was almost 20 years ago I went out and bought an e-kit for essentially the same reason, thinking it would make it easier to get "natural" sounding drum/percussion tracks. But I'm not a drummer, and I just plain don't have the patience or interest to learn. So I tried doing it on a keyboard, but I'm not really a keyboardist either, so it was a little better for some things, but still not great. So I got one of those Akai keyboards with the finger pads for drums. Yeah, that was not satisfying either. Then I finally got a working hex pickup to connect to the guitar>midi converter that I've had for years and suddenly I can play drums with real subtlety of both timing and dynamic. Especially with SuperiorDrummer for the sounds, it's almost kinda scary. I still will usually do the cymbals separate from the rest of the kit, but if you happen to be better at finger picking than I am, you could probably just do the whole thing at once.

The point being that a guitar>midi setup will be within about the same price range as a decent trigger kit, but will probably get you better results faster.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Now that is an interesting approach I had not thought about...

 

[minerman]

That is a cool idea dude, care to elaborate a little more, maybe with some pics & examples of what it's capable of??? I've been banging on my midi keyboard today, & it's just not there for me dude...I could do the "snap to grid" thing, but that would be pointless as there'd be no timing variations like that...I may just be stuck using midi loops & Jamstix...I'm really not worth a shit actually playing drums either....I mean, sure I can keep a beat, but honestly, not to a click like I'd need to, so I'm still looking at options for this....I hate to say it, but again, the loop/software thing may be it for me, unless something drastic changes....lol...

Thanks!!!

 

[ashcat_lt]

What pics? I use a Roland GK3A pickup into a Roland GI10 converter and then MIDI to my interface. I use Reaper and route the MIDI input to an instance of Superior Drummer. EZDrummer (or whatever else) also works, but I like the fact that SD lets me re-map the drums so to make some of the fingerings easier. I suppose there are MIDI keymap plugins that would do the same thing if you put them before whatever VSTi you're using.

The best example I can link to right now is the cover collaboration I did for Halloween. There's a drum machine in there, too, but the (super simple, I'll admit) "real drums" were done this way.

The real point is that you're already comfortable articulating a guitar, so you have very little to learn. Find (or set up) which notes are which drums and go. It works best for me if I palm mute most of the notes, and almost kind of asks for a full-on string mute. In my live shows I just play my guitar and let the drums play along with me almost randomly, but it will work for more structured parts once you take a minute to get the feel for it.

 

[lododrumguy]

Thank you for your reply. The software route is not an option for me as I record on a Tascam 244. I guess what I am wondering is will anyone listening to an e-kit on a recording know that it is an e-kit and not a real drum kit? There are so many variables that constitute the acoustic signature of real drums that I am sceptical as to whether an e-kit can reproduce that organic sound and feel. Or maybe I should just give up on the idea of having drums on my recordings.
Again thanks for your reply and any other help you may have to offer.

You should be skeptical, they don't really sound like real drums and how much they do will depend on the quality of the samples you're using (on your software or brain). Most recordings nowadays do have samples. If you've got a heavy rock mix where the drums will be compressed anyway most likely you won't notice much. Or if you're making a hip hop/electronic recording where people are used to this. If you're doing audiophile jazz/folk, etc. recordings that will be cut on vinyl you will definitely notice.

I would say they work for 90% of recordings now since most people listen to mp3s and the difference isn't as noticeable in a mix at that quality. Some of the higher end Rolands and Yamahas sound amazing as well so it just depends.