Electro-Voice Kick Dum Mic?

heatmiser said:
So many options! - thanks everyone.

What the heck did they mic Ringo's kick with in that last photo? Looks like a big LDC?

What effect does removing the front head altogether have?...a much drier sound?

I have heard of triggers and from what little I know of them, I'd prefer not to go in that direction. I have a little of that annoying purist sort of thing in me that makes me want to keep things simple and resort to as little trickery as possible.

The kick sound I get is ok, no one seems to think it's terrible or anything, just a little boxy and not enough low end for me. An SM~57 supposedly goes down to 40hz, which seems adequate, but that probably doesn't tell the whole story. Dedicated kick mics all seem to be much larger. Must be something about the bigger surface being able to harness lower frequencies somehow?

I do have a Studio Projects B1 LDC that does produce low end nicely, but I imagine it isn't generally advisable to put that kind of mic close to a kick drum, right? Lately I've used it as a single room mic and I EQ a lot of highs out of it and it actually adds some fullness to the kick.

Drums are so freakin' complicated - so many variables. As much of a pain as it can be trying to figure all this out, it's really mostly fun.
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An LDC on the kick is fine provided it's not in the hole. You don't have a hole in the head, so it'll be safe. A kick drum makes a huge woosh of air every time you stomp it, and that woosh can damage a condenser mic. But no hole, no woosh.

Taking the front head off destroys the tone of the drum, but it if you just want a dead thud, you can get that easily with no front head, and you can put the mic wherever you want. Back in the old days, people would take the front head off and put something heavy in there like a cinder block or can of paint. Supposedly it make the kick sound deeper. I don't see how, but who knows? I've never tried it. It won't hurt anything to take the front head off and you can do it in just a minute or two, so give it a try.

And +1 for no samples. That shit is whack. I strongly believe that people run to that garbage way too soon. You can't tune, mic, or effectively record a drum? Just use samples! I call bullshit on that. Pussies. Don't be one of those guys.
 
Cool. Thanks again. I guess I don't really want to go as far a dead thud, but who knows? Could sound cool and like you say, no harm in trying. Right now the sound when played live in the room is sufficiently dead with that pillow in there, I just feel like what I'm capturing with the mic isn't too close to what I hear live. I'm mainly not picking up as much low end in the recording as I hear live.

So I can try the LDC with both heads on, and I can take off the front head and try any dynamic mics I might have. I can also try tuning both heads differently and going through the process again. Maybe by the time I've tried all that I'll have saved enough dough for a decent mic!
 
Recording drums is definitely a laborous process. Even with the "right" mics, it can be tedious and difficult. It's not unlike moving a mic around a speaker an inch at a time, except with drums there's even more variables. The good thing about kick drums is that they're relatively easy to tune and record.

A 57 is not a good mic for kicks unless you're using it on a the beater side and blending it with something that gets a better low end response.

Another option that I don't think was mentioned is the subkick mic. If you have an old 8" speaker laying around you can make your own. They're great for capturing low end thump with an in-tact reso head.
 
Yes, ranjam mentioned a sub kick. I've read a few articles about building your own and they all start off stating how simple it is and then I read the instructions and am kind of intimidated. Yamaha makes their own...

On the surface, recording drums seems kind of simple. It knew it wouldn't be though because people I trust, such as yourself, have always said that it isn't. Prior to having a kit, I didn't really consider how many variables...the tone of a drum is actually pretty complex when you really listen. Coming from a guitar player kind of mentality, I'm thinking it's a purely percussive sort of sound, but there can be all these overtones.

I'm eyeing that electronic drum tuner though...despite lots of advice from you and others plus watching countless youtube vids, I'm still pretty clueless on the tuning. I followed all of the steps, but just got lost trying to match pitch at each lug. I think what I have sounds ok, but I know it could be so much better.

If drums weren't so damned loud, I'd play 'em all the time.
 
heatmiser said:
If drums weren't so damned loud, I'd play 'em all the time.
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Loud for who? Loud for you - wear earplugs. Loud for others - fuck em! :D

I've got an elementary school across the street from my house. I have first hand info, from my own kids, that they can hear me in the school. :listeningmusic:

You say you have someone else's kit. Are the heads old? Old heads can be a mofo to tune, if they can get tuned at all.
 
Yeah, I meant loud for others. I love loud. No problem there.

I live in a small, old house and the "studio" has no door on it so the sound really travels. The family is cool with it on a Saturday afternoon or whatever, but any other time when they're home it is kind of awkward.

A friend of my wife bought this kit a few years ago when she decided she wanted to be a heavy metal drummer all of the sudden. She took lessons for about a year and then stopped. She then thought she wanted to sell her house and her realtor told her to move some junk (like the drums) out to make it more attractive to buyers. I've had them almost a year now and no movement on the house. My hope is that she just sells them to me some day and then I may make modifications.

So, the heads are probably kind of old, but they appear to be in great condition. Almost no signs of wear at all.
 
heatmiser said:
Yeah, I meant loud for others. I love loud. No problem there.

I live in a small, old house and the "studio" has no door on it so the sound really travels. The family is cool with it on a Saturday afternoon or whatever, but any other time when they're home it is kind of awkward.

A friend of my wife bought this kit a few years ago when she decided she wanted to be a heavy metal drummer all of the sudden. She took lessons for about a year and then stopped. She then thought she wanted to sell her house and her realtor told her to move some junk (like the drums) out to make it more attractive to buyers. I've had them almost a year now and no movement on the house. My hope is that she just sells them to me some day and then I may make modifications.

So, the heads are probably kind of old, but they appear to be in great condition. Almost no signs of wear at all.
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What heads are on them? Do you know what brand and model the actual drums are? What about the cymbals?
Those could potentially be some important variables that could help get a better sound out of them.
Crappy heads will make any drum sound like trash :D
 
DrumRookie said:
What heads are on them? Do you know what brand and model the actual drums are? What about the cymbals?
Those could potentially be some important variables that could help get a better sound out of them.
Crappy heads will make any drum sound like trash :D
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Yes, the drums are a Yamaha Rydeen set. I think basically a good beginner set. I think she paid $400-$500 used. The hardware is beefy and everything is solid and looks to be of reasonably high quality.

The snare underneath has a clear head that simply says "Yamaha snare head by Remo". The top of the snare has "Aquarian Satin Finish Texture Coated".

The batter head on the kick is clear and says "Yamaha bass head by Remo" and the reso head on the kick is black and says "Yamaha by Remo". So, I dunno...good, bad...kinda blah? They're all in great shape with just a little wear in the center of the top snare head.

The cymbals are pretty bad - Sabian B8s. I've been checking ebay and CL for higher quality used cymbals. I'd like better HHs and at least one crash.

fat_fleet said:
Do you really not want to, heat?
Because I would do this before buying a new mic, though a 57 might not be ideal....
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No, I want to. I would absolutely cut like a coffee can sized hole off center in the reso head if they belonged to me, but the drums are just on long-term loan, so I don't think I should modify them too much. I've had them for almost a year, but you never know when she'll ask for 'em back. Greg suggested once removing the head on there now and buying my own and cutting a hole in it, but I haven't bothered to try that yet.

The pillow thing is tricky. A little goes a long way. When I got them, both heads were pretty tight and it rang out forever. I tuned them more loose and it was better, but still too much. I stuffed a pillow in there and it went completely dead. I moved the pillow around so that less was touching and that's where I'm at now. A reasonably dead thud with a little tail to it. Kind of nice actually, just not able to reproduce it via the mic.

I think I will wait on buying the mic. I have a lot of other things mentioned in this thread to try first. I think I may buy a Big Muff instead with the gift card. Always wanted one of those and my Rat pedal is just annoying. I just found out I'm getting a bonus at work in a couple of weeks, so if I haven't gotten a better sound by then with what I have, I could then afford to buy a nice dedicated kick mic like the ones mentioned in this thread.
 
I would recommend changing the resonate head to a Remo Diplomat. If the top snare head isn't that beat up, keep it. It's a good head.

Change the kick head, because your not going to get the tone you want with a stock head. And maybe look into getting a head made by Remo or Evans with built in dampers. Evan makes a good one, but you can't go wrong with Remo. Google it for more info.

Your definitely going to want some better quality cymbals. Get yourself some Sabian AA's (used) for cheap, or some Zildjian ZHT's or Sabian XS20's. Those two are intermediate lines, and are pretty good if you don't want to spend a lot.
The XS20 line is pretty good, and it's great for the price. I own the XS20 hihats, and I like them a lot.
But soon I'm going to get something a little different just because I'm looking at something else I like more.
But if you have the money, go for the HH's. I have an HH crash and I adore it. They are not very loud, but it's not too much of a problem. The HHX line was actually made to sound like an HH but have more projection.

The hardware Yamaha makes is pretty good, so I would stick with that.
I almost bought a Yammy Rydeen, but I went for something else. I've heard some great things about them once you get some good quality heads on it. Pretty nice entry-mid level kit.

Good luck and let me know if you need specifics on the heads or anything. :D
(I may also be willing to sell my hihats to you if your interested).
 
I like Rydeens. Granted, I only played one kit, and it was a backline, so I had no choice. But I didn't mind them at all. Sure, start with trying different heads, tune them to taste, and then try and capture what you hear 'live' onto tape. That's the trick. There's more to this than just deciding on what mic to use. It's going to be a journey. Heck, even the beater you choose will make a difference. There's no right or wrong choices, but a choice that compliments the rest of the instruments to your liking. Experiment!
 
The Studio Projects B1 LDC outside the reso head actually works pretty well. Certainly more boom to it than the 57. I thought it would pick up too much of the whole kit, but I placed it pretty close so the isolation was reasonably good.

I have some drum tracks now that sound good by themselves but will have to add other instruments to see if it works in a full mix...
 
Kick Drum Mic-shootout

I've found mic shootout videos on youtube to be very helpful in narrowing your searches (especially floor toms, MKD441's just sound soooooo sexy). The one I've linked has an EV RE-27 in it, as well as other cheap alternatives and the more popular, expensive type.
 
Interesting...thanks for sharing that link. So hard to tell on youtube with someone else's drums and who knows what sort of processing (although this guy says his was recorded flat with no comp or EQ). Certainly cooler than just reading about how they sound though!

There are links to tons of similar videos up there too, so I have plenty to listen to...
 
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