REEK BROCK
MR. LAST WORD
I need some help getting a grip on some effects .Phaser, Flanger , Delay,Tremelo, Reverb, stuff like that .What do you use and what does each do for you?
C
C jOker
Concious Emcee
i just started using reverb so umm im not sure on totally how it works but it does make your vocals sound better if you recording in a small room, what i did for a recording was make it sound it is a small large room...if that made any sense at all..
REEK BROCK
MR. LAST WORD
I usually use reverb on instrument sounds (sometimes too much) to make them sound more realistic.
M
Mindset
Well-known member
Delay, Reverb, and a lot of your effects are time based effects. They similate the room that you want to be in basically (for reverb). Reverb is thousands of tiny echo's that take place, that are too close together to notice the difference. So like if you said Apple, it would sound like Appleeeeeeeeeee, not Apple, apple apple apple... That would be delay.
Chorus, takes the sound, copies it, and basically pastes it with a very small delay & pitch change, to similate having 2 of whatever, or you can have 4 or 6 or whatever you set it at.
EQ's there's a 3 types of EQ's, Shelving EQ's, Graphic EQ's and Parametric EQ. The most common one used in the studio is the Parametric EQ, and most mixers have shelving eq's built in. Graphic EQ's are those ones that have the faders on them at a set frequency. Parametric EQ's are the ones to use because you can change the Q (bandwidth), boost cut, and center frequency. Which means you have more control over the frequency range than any of the other ones. You mainly use those depending on voice, instrument etc. Like for example.... A snare drum's fatness is at the 120 to 240hz range, crispness at 5K, snap at 10K and bong at 900hz. Which means, if you have a dull sounding snare, you can try and boost the crispnessat around 5kHz, and add some brightness to it etc. like if a electric guitar sounded muddy, you would use that parametric EQ and dial in around 100-200hz range, and lower it down to get rid of much of the muddy sound. Then if you had too much bite you would lower it down a tad bit around 2.5khz etc.
Then there's compressors, which are kind of easy to use. Starting with threshold, it'll tell you when you want the compressor to kick in if the sound passes the 'threshold' in dB. Attack is used to either delay the compressor to work right away, or a fast attack will allow it to work fast. Release, is when you want the compressor to reset and do it again for the next thing, Input & Gain/output are self explainitory, Ratio means like for a 4:1 ratio, means for ever 4 dB coming into the unit, 1dB goes out. Compressors work by lowering the high's, and bringing the lows back up, so that you can get a more uniform sound.
Flanging is basically almost the same as chorus, but the flanging is created by mixing the original signal with basically a delayed copy of itself, and where the length of the delay is constantly changing. You can use that while breaking into or out of a beat when rapping, or while talking. hard to explain. and I haven't touched Phaser yet so I couldn't explain it to you.
Chorus, takes the sound, copies it, and basically pastes it with a very small delay & pitch change, to similate having 2 of whatever, or you can have 4 or 6 or whatever you set it at.
EQ's there's a 3 types of EQ's, Shelving EQ's, Graphic EQ's and Parametric EQ. The most common one used in the studio is the Parametric EQ, and most mixers have shelving eq's built in. Graphic EQ's are those ones that have the faders on them at a set frequency. Parametric EQ's are the ones to use because you can change the Q (bandwidth), boost cut, and center frequency. Which means you have more control over the frequency range than any of the other ones. You mainly use those depending on voice, instrument etc. Like for example.... A snare drum's fatness is at the 120 to 240hz range, crispness at 5K, snap at 10K and bong at 900hz. Which means, if you have a dull sounding snare, you can try and boost the crispnessat around 5kHz, and add some brightness to it etc. like if a electric guitar sounded muddy, you would use that parametric EQ and dial in around 100-200hz range, and lower it down to get rid of much of the muddy sound. Then if you had too much bite you would lower it down a tad bit around 2.5khz etc.
Then there's compressors, which are kind of easy to use. Starting with threshold, it'll tell you when you want the compressor to kick in if the sound passes the 'threshold' in dB. Attack is used to either delay the compressor to work right away, or a fast attack will allow it to work fast. Release, is when you want the compressor to reset and do it again for the next thing, Input & Gain/output are self explainitory, Ratio means like for a 4:1 ratio, means for ever 4 dB coming into the unit, 1dB goes out. Compressors work by lowering the high's, and bringing the lows back up, so that you can get a more uniform sound.
Flanging is basically almost the same as chorus, but the flanging is created by mixing the original signal with basically a delayed copy of itself, and where the length of the delay is constantly changing. You can use that while breaking into or out of a beat when rapping, or while talking. hard to explain. and I haven't touched Phaser yet so I couldn't explain it to you.
Noddy301
Young ~N~ ReAdy
Why go to college?!? If you got Mindset!
Fyre
New member
Noddy301 said:
i kno right......
M
Mindset
Well-known member
lol I go to Dallas Sound Labs (Media Tech Institute), and work with my teacher (which does beats & production for Kanye, and his artists. Also he's in close contact with Dre's business manager. The school I go to has numerous platinum artists that recorded there. Like Destiny's child's Writings On The Wall, and Stevie Ray Vaughn, Pantera, and other ones, and also the audio production and some film production are done for Prison Break. It's krazie shit here.
M
Mindset
Well-known member
Here's a list of EQ stuff that can be used in like yall's beats etc...
Snare Drum
Fatness at 120-240Hz
Crispness at 5K
Snap at 10K
if your using a Picallo Snare, it's at 240-300hz
and the bong at 900Hz
Rack Toms
Fullness at 240-500Hz
Attack at 3-5K
Conga/Bongo
Resonance 200-240hZ
Slap Attack at 5K
Electric Guitar
Muddy at 100-200Hz
Fullness at 240-500Hz
Bite 2.5kHz
Edge 4K
Acoustic Piano
Bottom at 80-120Hz
Presence at 2.5-5K
Crisp Attack at 10kHz
Honky Tonk sound at 2.5K
Bass Guitar
5 string bottome at 50-80Hz, 4 strings at 60-80Hz
Attack at 700-1000Hz
Pop 2.5kHz
Warmth at 100-200Hz
Kick Drum
Depth at 60-100Hz
Attack at 2.5K
Boxy sound at 400Hz
Hi Hats/Cymbals
Clank or Gong sound at 200Hz
Shimmer at 7.5-12kHz
Horns
Fullness at 120-240Hz
Shrill at 5-7.5kHz
Strings
Fullness at 240Hz
Scratchiness at 7.5-10kHz
Floor Toms
Fullness at 80-120Hz
Attack at 5kHz
Electric Organ
Bottom at 80-120Hz
Body at 240Hz
Presence at 2.5kHz
for voice, I forgot lol.
Snare Drum
Fatness at 120-240Hz
Crispness at 5K
Snap at 10K
if your using a Picallo Snare, it's at 240-300hz
and the bong at 900Hz
Rack Toms
Fullness at 240-500Hz
Attack at 3-5K
Conga/Bongo
Resonance 200-240hZ
Slap Attack at 5K
Electric Guitar
Muddy at 100-200Hz
Fullness at 240-500Hz
Bite 2.5kHz
Edge 4K
Acoustic Piano
Bottom at 80-120Hz
Presence at 2.5-5K
Crisp Attack at 10kHz
Honky Tonk sound at 2.5K
Bass Guitar
5 string bottome at 50-80Hz, 4 strings at 60-80Hz
Attack at 700-1000Hz
Pop 2.5kHz
Warmth at 100-200Hz
Kick Drum
Depth at 60-100Hz
Attack at 2.5K
Boxy sound at 400Hz
Hi Hats/Cymbals
Clank or Gong sound at 200Hz
Shimmer at 7.5-12kHz
Horns
Fullness at 120-240Hz
Shrill at 5-7.5kHz
Strings
Fullness at 240Hz
Scratchiness at 7.5-10kHz
Floor Toms
Fullness at 80-120Hz
Attack at 5kHz
Electric Organ
Bottom at 80-120Hz
Body at 240Hz
Presence at 2.5kHz
for voice, I forgot lol.
Fyre
New member
dog seriously im about to copy and paste your last two post as a reference point for when im mixing and makiing beats
mentalattica
Just a Home Recorder
Good Stuff Mindset.
Just thought I'd add a little of what I do, these are more my technique rather than set in stone.
1. Compression
I compress going in between -8 and -10 threshold, 2:1 - 2.5:1 ratio (fairly fast attack, auto release hardly any gain reduction) Then I compress more with a plugin of my choice slamming it a little bit harder.
2. High Pass Filter on all vocals (most mic's have this and a lot of pre amps do too it's symbol looks like this /-- or abbreviated as "HPF" that's the best I can do...lol)
I don't use the HPF on any of my outboard gear, I use my eq plugins to do all of my eqing. But I put the HPF around 100 - 120hz, it varies on voice but that rolls off the boominess.
If vocals still sound a bit muddy, I do a small cut at 190hz for my vocals but that muddiness range is somewhere from 200 - 240 hz. If I do any low cuts, I almost always boost somewhere also.
3. Reverb, I use a very very slight plate reverb a lot of times. Reverb in hip-hop really shouldn't be noticeable at all unless your going for "that sound" (not a rule, but most agree). I ALWAYS use headphones to determine my reverb it allows you to hear more details by the time I'm done you hardly hear the reverb at all through monitors or speakers, ofcourse you shouldn't mix with headphones. If I played someone one of my accapella vocals, most people wouldn't suspect I used a reverb at all it's that slight.
4. If vocals are really thin in the production, I copy the mono channel (vocal) to another track pitch shift it down a semi-tone or so but keeping the tempo. Hit it real hard with another compressor (like -15 thres. 8:1 - 10:1 or something crazy like that), pan it slightly to one side or the other and delay it by 5-15ms set 100% wet. I DeEss, use a LPF (low pass filter which is the opposite of a HPF maybe around 10-11khz to roll off some of the highs) Then I jack the volume WAYYYY down. It gives the vocal more body and a slight doubled effect.
I don't like use a Chorus effect (as far as the tool), instead I make my own chorus effect by layering vocals and panning. Any dubs usually have a HPF around 125 - 150hz and aren't heavily compressed.
All my vocals get set up as busses usually labeled as Lead Vocals, Background Vocals, Chorus Lead, Chorus Background and adlibs. So I don't have to use too much processing power applying effects to each individual track.
I don't do this all the time on every song though, each song has it's own needs, it's just some of the stuff I do in general. Hope this helps some. None of it's set in stone and might not work for others.
--------------
Also with production I do use HPF's on drums, which might not be logical to some but a kick drum doesn't really need 0 - 20 hz if most of it's energy is at 60hz. I use HPF's on basslines also (except for sub basses and sine's). I roll off the low end of high hats, roll off the high end of kick drums and most basses. Just getting rid of any frequencies it's using that aren't needed.
Just thought I'd add a little of what I do, these are more my technique rather than set in stone.
1. Compression
I compress going in between -8 and -10 threshold, 2:1 - 2.5:1 ratio (fairly fast attack, auto release hardly any gain reduction) Then I compress more with a plugin of my choice slamming it a little bit harder.
2. High Pass Filter on all vocals (most mic's have this and a lot of pre amps do too it's symbol looks like this /-- or abbreviated as "HPF" that's the best I can do...lol)
I don't use the HPF on any of my outboard gear, I use my eq plugins to do all of my eqing. But I put the HPF around 100 - 120hz, it varies on voice but that rolls off the boominess.
If vocals still sound a bit muddy, I do a small cut at 190hz for my vocals but that muddiness range is somewhere from 200 - 240 hz. If I do any low cuts, I almost always boost somewhere also.
3. Reverb, I use a very very slight plate reverb a lot of times. Reverb in hip-hop really shouldn't be noticeable at all unless your going for "that sound" (not a rule, but most agree). I ALWAYS use headphones to determine my reverb it allows you to hear more details by the time I'm done you hardly hear the reverb at all through monitors or speakers, ofcourse you shouldn't mix with headphones. If I played someone one of my accapella vocals, most people wouldn't suspect I used a reverb at all it's that slight.
4. If vocals are really thin in the production, I copy the mono channel (vocal) to another track pitch shift it down a semi-tone or so but keeping the tempo. Hit it real hard with another compressor (like -15 thres. 8:1 - 10:1 or something crazy like that), pan it slightly to one side or the other and delay it by 5-15ms set 100% wet. I DeEss, use a LPF (low pass filter which is the opposite of a HPF maybe around 10-11khz to roll off some of the highs) Then I jack the volume WAYYYY down. It gives the vocal more body and a slight doubled effect.
I don't like use a Chorus effect (as far as the tool), instead I make my own chorus effect by layering vocals and panning. Any dubs usually have a HPF around 125 - 150hz and aren't heavily compressed.
All my vocals get set up as busses usually labeled as Lead Vocals, Background Vocals, Chorus Lead, Chorus Background and adlibs. So I don't have to use too much processing power applying effects to each individual track.
I don't do this all the time on every song though, each song has it's own needs, it's just some of the stuff I do in general. Hope this helps some. None of it's set in stone and might not work for others.
--------------
Also with production I do use HPF's on drums, which might not be logical to some but a kick drum doesn't really need 0 - 20 hz if most of it's energy is at 60hz. I use HPF's on basslines also (except for sub basses and sine's). I roll off the low end of high hats, roll off the high end of kick drums and most basses. Just getting rid of any frequencies it's using that aren't needed.
Noddy301
Young ~N~ ReAdy
I think we should sticky this thread...I may need this down the road...Good work yall!
bknot1
Hustle Magic!! We Got It.
Mindset said:
for vocals
Fullness at 120Hz
Boominess at 200 to 240Hz
Presence at 5KHz
Sibilance at 2.5KHz
Air at 12 to 15 KHz
all these are guidelines to follow..every recording will be different..use these Feqs as guideline..and you should be ok with you recordings...
good post Minset..
bknot1
Hustle Magic!! We Got It.
Mental..thats nice what you do...no wonder your work sounds good..
bknot1
Hustle Magic!! We Got It.
also if you havent go read Blue Bear's Mixin 101 article http://www.bluebearsound.com/articles/mixing101.htm
its real damn helpful..
and overlooked but a lot of people
its real damn helpful..
and overlooked but a lot of people
M
Mindset
Well-known member
bknot1 said:
Ah I should have remembered that, I use it most of the time every day. And yeah people, they are just guidelines. The actual frequencies you would want to change varies from what sound is it, and other factors too. Also note, that whenever you start lowering a frequency, remember that it can affect the original sound too. So like if you got a bleed of Hi hats in a snare drum, and start lowering at exactly 200Hz, you will cut into the snare itself, best bet for something like that would be to lower it down without affecting the snare too much by EQing it, and then maybe run it through a gate/expander. Note that if there's a considerable amount of bleed, do not try to totally X out that sound, it'll make your snare sound very bad. Even with a little bleed, you would want to minimize it as much as you can without fully affecting the snare, and then usually the whole music should mask it. IF it's a good amount of bleed..... RE-Record again.
M
Mindset
Well-known member
Here's a few tips taken out from the mixing engineer's handbook...
For fatter lead background vocals, use some chorusing (very short modulated delays), panned hard left and right to fatten up the sound. Use different EQ and reverb settings on the delays (make sure you check the mix in mono to be sure that the delays aren't canceling.) Rdie the chorusing effect, adding and subtracting it according to what sounds best. - OK.... In addition to something like this, on Delays, you would want to calculate & dial in the delay so that it delays with the rest of the music. So like calculate the BPM, and then divide that number with 60, so like 60/88BPM (60 being seconds), and whatever that number multiply it by 1000, and you get how fast/slow you want your delays in milliseconds (that being for quarter note), so, like in this case, it would have been 682ms (rounded up), divide by 2 again, and it gives you sixteenth note delays, divide again for 1/32nd note delay etc, depending on how short you want the delays. So it's important to get the timing of the delays perfect. Timing them right with the tempo will add depth without being noticable. TIMING REVERBS also works better too...
For Out Of Tune Vocals - Use a stereo pitch shifter with one side tuned slightly high and the other tuned slightly low. Pan these left and right. The more out of tune the vocal, the more y ou might want to de-tune the pitch up and down. This does an effective job of taking the listener's attention off the sour notes.
For Electronic Keyboards - A nice delay effect that simulates a small room can be achieve by using a stereo delay and setting the delay times to 211ms and 222ms.
For fatter guitars - Delay the guitar about 12ms (or whatever the tempo dictates) and hard pan both the guitar and delay (Like wet signal on one side, dry signal on the other). This sounds like two people playing perfectly in sync, yet sounds bigger and still keeps a nice hole open in the middle for the vocals.
Sometimes the vocals dont' sit too well with the track. There's no real rule as to what should be mixed down first (like some engineers work with the snare first, and then the kick, and then the piano, and then the guitars etc....) There is one thing though. You DO want to get your vocals mixed down sometime soon though. IF they dont' sit well, there's many things you can do, but here's one thing.... You can EQ the presence of the vocal up say like 3dB, on a narrow Q, and then on every other track (drums, acoustic guitar, piano or whatever), lower down the same 3dB, and narrow Q, on the same frequency you used for the vocal. This makes basically a small notch in the rest of the track for the vocals to sit better in.
There are 6 elements of a great mix...
1. Balance (balance in volume also gives you depth and distance etc)
2. Frequency Balance (proper representation of the frequency spectrum, can add height)
3. Dynamics (volume envelopes, fits better in the mix, allows sound to fit above mix, changes the shape of the envelope)
4. Dimension (done with effects, you can use room ambience, or texturize the sound
5. Parama (the way a track sits in the stereo or surround field)
6. Interest (of course you gotta have an interesting concept with the music...)
You can texturize with reverb/delays
Reverbs - organize them. (longest reverbs should be the brightest sound, shortest reverb should be the darkest of course this can change due to some tastes and genres)
AND of course, (I will get chewed for this...) There is only THREE different types of mixes... The West Coast type mixes, The East Coast type mixes, and the London type mixes. Anything else is really a mixture of either of those together. There's no Nashville type mix, or Houston type mix, or Alasken type mix etc... OF COURSE it comes down to the engineer & producers to check how they sound, and these are just broad stuff.
BTW, make sure you understand Side Chaining & In Line patching.... I've seen some people use reverbs as inline patches, and compressors as side chains lol....Most of you know it already though...
MORE LATER
Please feel free to correct & add on anything.
For fatter lead background vocals, use some chorusing (very short modulated delays), panned hard left and right to fatten up the sound. Use different EQ and reverb settings on the delays (make sure you check the mix in mono to be sure that the delays aren't canceling.) Rdie the chorusing effect, adding and subtracting it according to what sounds best. - OK.... In addition to something like this, on Delays, you would want to calculate & dial in the delay so that it delays with the rest of the music. So like calculate the BPM, and then divide that number with 60, so like 60/88BPM (60 being seconds), and whatever that number multiply it by 1000, and you get how fast/slow you want your delays in milliseconds (that being for quarter note), so, like in this case, it would have been 682ms (rounded up), divide by 2 again, and it gives you sixteenth note delays, divide again for 1/32nd note delay etc, depending on how short you want the delays. So it's important to get the timing of the delays perfect. Timing them right with the tempo will add depth without being noticable. TIMING REVERBS also works better too...
For Out Of Tune Vocals - Use a stereo pitch shifter with one side tuned slightly high and the other tuned slightly low. Pan these left and right. The more out of tune the vocal, the more y ou might want to de-tune the pitch up and down. This does an effective job of taking the listener's attention off the sour notes.
For Electronic Keyboards - A nice delay effect that simulates a small room can be achieve by using a stereo delay and setting the delay times to 211ms and 222ms.
For fatter guitars - Delay the guitar about 12ms (or whatever the tempo dictates) and hard pan both the guitar and delay (Like wet signal on one side, dry signal on the other). This sounds like two people playing perfectly in sync, yet sounds bigger and still keeps a nice hole open in the middle for the vocals.
Sometimes the vocals dont' sit too well with the track. There's no real rule as to what should be mixed down first (like some engineers work with the snare first, and then the kick, and then the piano, and then the guitars etc....) There is one thing though. You DO want to get your vocals mixed down sometime soon though. IF they dont' sit well, there's many things you can do, but here's one thing.... You can EQ the presence of the vocal up say like 3dB, on a narrow Q, and then on every other track (drums, acoustic guitar, piano or whatever), lower down the same 3dB, and narrow Q, on the same frequency you used for the vocal. This makes basically a small notch in the rest of the track for the vocals to sit better in.
There are 6 elements of a great mix...
1. Balance (balance in volume also gives you depth and distance etc)
2. Frequency Balance (proper representation of the frequency spectrum, can add height)
3. Dynamics (volume envelopes, fits better in the mix, allows sound to fit above mix, changes the shape of the envelope)
4. Dimension (done with effects, you can use room ambience, or texturize the sound
5. Parama (the way a track sits in the stereo or surround field)
6. Interest (of course you gotta have an interesting concept with the music...)
You can texturize with reverb/delays
Reverbs - organize them. (longest reverbs should be the brightest sound, shortest reverb should be the darkest of course this can change due to some tastes and genres)
AND of course, (I will get chewed for this...) There is only THREE different types of mixes... The West Coast type mixes, The East Coast type mixes, and the London type mixes. Anything else is really a mixture of either of those together. There's no Nashville type mix, or Houston type mix, or Alasken type mix etc... OF COURSE it comes down to the engineer & producers to check how they sound, and these are just broad stuff.
BTW, make sure you understand Side Chaining & In Line patching.... I've seen some people use reverbs as inline patches, and compressors as side chains lol....Most of you know it already though...
MORE LATER
Please feel free to correct & add on anything.
M
Mindset
Well-known member
bumping it up to the top
gullyjewelz
New member
with this wealth of information - i feel - nourished!!! now i wanna go make a beat - n im too tired to get out of this damm bed . . . but damm i wanna git up now!!!!
gullyjewelz
New member
this is gonna sound stupid im sure - but im willin to risk it!!!
what i have noticed in a lot of the "music" constructions that "catch my ear" - whether from dudes on this site, monster producers like Dre and Lil John, etc.
i hear a lot of "lo-note - hi-note" ALTERNATING in the musical patterns - is this the "standard" for a catchy a song or merely a coincidence ?
what i have noticed in a lot of the "music" constructions that "catch my ear" - whether from dudes on this site, monster producers like Dre and Lil John, etc.
i hear a lot of "lo-note - hi-note" ALTERNATING in the musical patterns - is this the "standard" for a catchy a song or merely a coincidence ?
bknot1
Hustle Magic!! We Got It.
Nice Mind..
If you dont have a copy of the Mixing Engineer Handbook..your missin so damn good information..
If you dont have a copy of the Mixing Engineer Handbook..your missin so damn good information..