Effect Boxes Noise

T

tonyA

New member
The signal to noise ratio of each of these boxes are great from 80db to 90db (way back when, pre-digital days, these are unheard of and available only on very, and I mean VERY expensive units). But when these efx boxes are hooked up in serial, I get a hum or noise. Any ideas? I have tried and isolated each one, hooked up each one and boost the volume to find out which one of these boxes were noisy, individually, they were quiet or virtually noisefree, but together, there is a definite hmm or noise on the track. How can I get rid of this. Little by little, I am getting more convinced that a multifunction HDR or DAW with built-in effects seems to be the way to go.

Here are the efx line up in serial:
antares atr-1
digitech midi vocalist
alesis m-eq 230
dbx 1 compressor/limiter 262
behringer virtualizer pro

they go in/out in serial of a TASCAM 520

Please don't tell me I need to buy more expensive items....don't have the money for that and I don't really like using a gate for recording, for live/stage work they are okay, but not recording. Has anyone used a gate for recording? Was it noticeable?
 
Are you chaining 5 processors? With that many even the best boxes will add a noticeable amount of hiss. Especially if you are compressing. If there is a constant hum then you probably have a ground loop. Make sure all your cables are good and that ALL connected gear is plugged into power strips eminating from the same wall outlet.
 
Not sure you can successfully chain that many devices with a compressor at the end - I've tended to notice the compressor ends up bringing anything unwanted right up there.

You did the right thing by checking them one at a time. I'd suggest removing one device at a time, and seeing if the hum remains. At some point, you should find the bugger that's causing it. Then it's on to determining if the hum can be addressed ...

Good luck!
 
Is the noise you are hearing a steady state hiss, or a buzz?

If it is hiss, then that's probably just the accumulated noise of each box added to each other and there's little you can do other then possibly putting some single ended noise reduction on it. If a buzz, then you might not have them cabled properly, or could be crossing power lines with the audio lines, or may need to plug them all into the same outlet, as has been mentioned.

The other big issue is gain staging. If you are boosting signal level within that chain, you will certainly add gobs of noise. The input and output levels of each of those units needs to be carefully set. I suspect levels may be mismatched between the units in the chain.

Again, you are really pushing it by having all those boxes in serial. Those are mostly low end boxes and were low end in their day. Saying the specs are unheard of is to buy into 8 year old marketing hype, not reality. Chaining those together will basically create a hiss/hum machine, especially once you multi-track.

Please don't tell me I need to buy more expensive items....don't have the money for that and I don't really like using a gate for recording, for live/stage work they are okay, but not recording. Has anyone used a gate for recording? Was it noticeable? [/B]
Click to expand...


The problem is not really buying more expensive items, but using the ones you have correctly. A gate will only help when you are not running signal, and I suspect the background noise level may be so high as to make it tough to set the gate to trigger invisibly. And the gate won't help reduce the noise when it is open. You may have better luck with single ended noise reduction. But that will work better on hiss than hums or buzzes.

The bottom line is, don't chain that many boxes together. Eliminate those units that you don't absolutely need at any given moment. In other words, patch units in and out as you use them, don't have them permanently chained together.
 
There's nothing wrong with multiple effects in series, but you have to go about eliminating the hum by a process of elimination.

Firstly, run all your devices from the same wall power output. Use a power board if necessary.

Second, try removing the first item in the chain, then the first and second, then 1st second and third.

See if any one processor is the main offender.

Another technique is "always blame the cheapest component first" - the possibility is that your leads are a contributing factor (keep the runs short as possible), or the cheapest device is picking up interference.

Another problem is that some units may have balanced outputs and some may have unbalanced outputs. You may need a DI box to be added to isolate unbalanced and balanced devices.

Some units will work from a mains transformer - these can produce unwanted line noise - see if this is the case by moving the unit.

There could be a random factor in all this - perhaps the ground/earth in your building is not truly 0 volts. Running your boxes at a friend's place may highlight this. Another technique I've used (dangerous and not recommended) is to carry a double adaptor for power with the earth pin lifted. This has helped in some rare cases where 50 cycle hum is a problem (old buildings).

There may be PCs or other items on the same circuit as your equipment which are interfering - RF interference from PCs is quite common.

There could be impedance mismatches between the output of one unit and the input of the next. Again, try a cheap DI box at various stages to see.

Good luck with your hunt for the culprit.
 
I'm not sure if I would consider purchasing a DAW or SIAB for the built-in FX would necessarily give you access to better FX. As a Fostex VF-80 owner I have found the built-in FX to be limited in the sense that I can only access certain FX in the situations where the hardware/software designers at Fostex have determined I should be able to use them and not when I want to.
One piece of equipment that might also be helpful would be to add a patchbay so that you can patch FX in as you need them instead of keeping them all chained in serial.
You don't mention how long your patch cables are between the FX. As someone else on this thread mentioned, in this case the shorter the better. These can be purchased in lengths as short as 6". So if you're using longer ones, switching to the shorter cables would be a plus, especially since longer cables multiply the likelihood of RF interference.
 
Thanks for that insight on DAW. I thought it was effects heaven being with built-in effects, guess not.

My cables are 3' only in length and are, of course shielded. I have come to the conclusion that whatever noise I have per unit, the next unit 'amplifies' it and to the next, up until they get so amplified that they are discernable (actually, bothersome). A12Stringer's suggestion about a patch bay seems to be the best solution so I don't have to rewire each time. I was just lazy, that is why I hooked them up in a series. I don't really use all of them at the same time.

I guess, I will just use the compressor when mastering, the harmonizer and/or atr-1 when mixing, Only the eq and reverb, during recording as they affect the playing or singing of the 'artist'.

Well, thanks to all of you for your suggestions. I guess, on to eBay to find by patch bay. If only I knew how to wait, I would not have ended up with a noise gate I don't need.

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