ECM8000 as overheads

[VirtualSamana]

I'm using a pair of these as overheads per Harvey's recomendation. The problem is that they sound really washed out in the stereo department. I am trying to use the methods outlined by Tubedude ( great sound with 3 mics post in the percussion board)

I am suspecting that the problem may be stemming partially from the fact that the ECMs are omni. This is probably beneficial in terms of less phasing but doesn't make it easy to get a good stereo image. It could also do with the fact that I really don't know what I am doing. It would be great to hear from other ECM users who have had success and their suggestions.

Thanks!

 

[knownuttin]

One thing to consider is that being omnis, you will pick up a lot of room sound. If your room does not sound good, the mics will tell the truth about this. The picture they paint of your acoustic space will be much more inclusive than cardioids.

If you've a good room for drums, then they should work well. One trick is to measure with a string or mic cable to get equal distance from the center of the snare to each capsule. The ECM8000's I point directly at the floor when using as overheads.
-kent

 

[Track Rat]

Try using them with a Jeklin Disc.

 

[ausrock]

I just spent this afternoon tracking drums using ECM's as outlined in the thread by Tubedude.................the mic heads are no more than 15" apart with the left hand mic pointing straight down at the snare and the right hand mic boom coming over the drummers RH shoulder with the mic pointing somewhere between the floor tom and the kick pedal. So far stereo imaging seems fine.

The full set-up is D112 on kick, 57's on snare, rack and floor toms, 58 on h/hats, ECM's on o/heads and a C1 about 6' out and 6' above the floor which is giving a nice subtle room sound to things.

Either the ECM's (as a pair) or the C1 are giving usable results by themselves.

 

[Chris Fallen]

Here's how I did mine. Remember to keep the two overheads the same distance from the snare to avoid phase cancellation. I don't know how right this is, but it turned out good and a guy in the mp3 section said it had a really nice w-i-d-e stereo image. Panned one hard right and one hard left.

Christopher

 

[Scooter B]

I have been imersed in Harvey's " The Mic Thread" that si available in a printable friendly format.

Just yesterday I was reading Harvey's comments regarding omni mic's and stereo imaging. He indicated that to get discernable stereo imaging from a pair of omni's that a greater distance between the omni mic's is needed than would be used for more directional mics.

While the equidistance rule to prevent phase cancelations sounds good; the 15" apart sounds much too close to acheive the greater ditance of seperation needed for stereo imaging...but then distance is very relative term.

My impression was that the directional overheads would towards the outer edges of the kits and the greater distance needed for omni's would be closer to 6 feet apart rather than 15 inches.

Then again that was just my impression...I have not mic'ed any drums yet...not enough mic's or drums or rooms.....

 

[chessrock]

My impression was that the directional overheads would towards the outer edges of the kits and the greater distance needed for omni's would be closer to 6 feet apart rather than 15 inches.

That has been my experience. The only instance where I would put them closer together than that would be if I were recording with a binaural setup . . . which really isn't a bad idea, come to think of it. If you could put together a makeshift binaural head and place it somewhere above the drummer's head, or next to it or whatever.

Maybe that was the idea behind tubedude's thread. If you could place the Right overhead as close to the drummer's ear without him bumping in to it, it might create that sort of effect (very loosely).

Other than that, I would space them as far apart as possible on either side of the kit.

 

[Chris Fallen]

Can someone post some pictures or some badly made MSPaint pictures of how overheads should be positioned?

Christopher

 

[littledog]

some guy named "tubedude' is taking credit for Recorderman's drum mic'ing method????

 

[tdukex]

No. I think Tubedude gave credit when he posted he had tried it and liked it.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Can someone post some pictures or some badly made MSPaint pictures of how overheads should be positioned?

Christopher

Here's a few pictures with the Audix Tr-40s as overheads. The Behringer ECM8000 are pretty much the same mic at a small fraction of the cost.

 

[Chris Fallen]

Thanks Harvey. Very appreciated.

Christopher

 

[VirtualSamana]

Thanks Harvey! So do you think that I'll get a better stereo image by spacing the mics further apart?

Thanks for the drawing Chris! I'll experiment with the placement you suggested.

ausrock - do you think you could post a sample of your drum sound or lead me to a link in the MP3 clinic.

TrackRat - Huh? Fill me in I am dumb.

 

[ausrock]

VS,

I would if I could, but at present I have no connection between my recording gear and my PC, although I am slowly building a PC which will be dedicated to the recording gear.

I have some recollection that Harvey mentioned using omnis in an XY configuration somewhere in the "Big Thread".................Harvey, if you see this you may be able to clarify the "omni-XY" thing for us.

 

[darnold]

The farther apart you have the mics, the more spread you will have. Do you mean washy as in they are phasy you would probably have more of a problem with phase is your room isnt very good and they are spread far apart. One problem of omnis is the stereo field is kinda 'Phantom' so the center is not very defined. Another thing that helps with the spread except takes some of the center away is putting them parellel to each other.

http://www.tape.com/cgi-bin/SoftCar...techniques.html?L+cassette+nqna2923+995498793

This link will give you some reading on the basics of stereo micing. I could be wrong with the farther apart gives wider spread though but thats what i remember reading but didnt quite make sense to me. I didnt think X/Y stereo micing worked with omnis without a foam baffle in between. But i could also be wrong about that.

Good luck.

Danny

 

[Badger]

I have to disagree with harvy on this one. When micing a room air conditioner, there really is no need to use two mics as it basically a mono instrument. Also, the drum set should really be moved as you might get sympathetic vibrations from the cymbals and snare.

 

[FenderTL5]

I have to disagree with harvy on this one. When micing a room air conditioner, there really is no need to use two mics as it basically a mono instrument. Also, the drum set should really be moved as you might get sympathetic vibrations from the cymbals and snare.

Good point, but the seperation between condensation drip and the running air conditionar can be quite striking when recorded in stereo. Cardioids would be a better choice because of the small size of the instrument.

 

[Badger]

Good point, but the seperation between condensation drip and the running air conditionar can be quite striking when recorded in stereo. Cardioids would be a better choice because of the small size of the instrument.

But in this configuration the second microphone would need ot be on the other side of the wll to capture the drip properly...I could see setting up a second mic there...it would also capture the more of the motor sound...

 

[Harvey Gerst]

So what's your suggestions? Just leave the AC off and have the drummers sweat? Hell, most of them already smell bad when they first get here. The AC stays !!

Why do you think every major studio in the world always keeps the drummer in another room?

 

[Badger]

Nah...leave the AC on and get rid of the drummers...