qiktune
New member
Have at it.....
D
Daisy
Banned
Is this serious, or are you messing with us?
qiktune
New member
Is this serious, or are you messing with us?
lol, what do you mean? Why would I mess with anyone?
Is it a crap choice?
The reason I chose it is because I want to get off on the right foot and dont want to alienate "non" pop lovers (was going to use Good Vibrations). At the moment whenever I burn to disc a song I'm working on on I add this to the disc and it becomes a reference for volume/dynamics (sound in general) etc.
I'm new to recording and winging it (but really want to learn)
D
Daisy
Banned
Alright, here goes ...
Drums; Tracked in a really dead room, as was common for the era. Kick and snare are definitely gated. Sounds like a pretty minimal setup -- just a few overheads, fairly close in; definitely a spaced pair panned pretty hard, as the cymbals are obviously spaced out.
Snare has a really nice snap to it; sounds like some dbx160 type compression on that. I'm guessing a top and bottom mic, with the bottom heavily gated and very low in the mix. No reverb or room mics to speak of. Doesn't soud like anything was wildly EQ'd either. Just some really basic stuff there. Nice kit in a dead space.
Bass sounds like a 60% amp to 40% direct split (or somewhere thereabouts). Doesn't sound obviously compressed. I would guess that a lot of compression is coming from a combination of the amp, along with consistent playing, as well as some tape compresssion and what not.
Guitar -- played very clean through a clean amp. Two tracks mic'ed head on, I would guess with a 57 against the grille or similar; one for the main rhythm, dry. Another track with the "chucking" harmonics. Both panned right of center.
Interesting ... almost sounds like the reverb on the harmonic plucking thing is panned left. Nifty. And it definitely sounds like a spring type reverb with a bit of a predelay to it.
Guitar solo ... pretty cool, actually. Sounds like it was played through a leslie. Possibly two speakers there, with each one mic'ed up and panned just right and left of center; with some spring reverb on there as well.
Backing vocals; Sounds like a very small group of ladies (2 or 3 tops) in front of a single mic (or on either side of a figure-8). Triple tracked. Each part of the harmony sung in unison; During mixing the soprano part panned left, first alto panned right, and lower alto part up center. Sounds like a plate reverb on there. Not overly obvious, but with a noticeable tail. No other effects detectable. Not much comp or eq.
Lead vocals; sounds like they were actually double-tracked. That would be my guess, but it sounds like they kind of cleverly tucked one of the takes underneath so as to be sneaky about it. Some slap-back on the voice. But rather than a delay, it sounds more to me like a plate reverb with a enough pre-delay so as to give it a slap-back effect. Either that or they've got some combo of slap-back delay with some reverb on the tail. The delay / predelay is panned / spread out as well. Pretty cheezy, but sorta' cool for the era, I guess. Now a very popular technique used for the monster truck ads on the radio.
The coolest and simultaneously gayest part of the whole thing ... is the hard-panned doubled things that come in during the choruses... the name of them escaped me. It's not a harpsichord, but it is kind of similar and it produces what amounts to a toy piano. Don't tell me, I'll think of the name!
Anyway, they got two tracks of that on the chorus; each one plucking away on the same part and hard-panned right and left. It's good and common to do that sort of thing; panning stuff that's in the higher registers, like cymbals and hand percussion, etc. As stuff in the higher registers is much more directional, and thus helps spread things out more within the stereo field.
I was hoping that you were going to pick Yes - Close to the Edge.
Drums; Tracked in a really dead room, as was common for the era. Kick and snare are definitely gated. Sounds like a pretty minimal setup -- just a few overheads, fairly close in; definitely a spaced pair panned pretty hard, as the cymbals are obviously spaced out.
Snare has a really nice snap to it; sounds like some dbx160 type compression on that. I'm guessing a top and bottom mic, with the bottom heavily gated and very low in the mix. No reverb or room mics to speak of. Doesn't soud like anything was wildly EQ'd either. Just some really basic stuff there. Nice kit in a dead space.
Bass sounds like a 60% amp to 40% direct split (or somewhere thereabouts). Doesn't sound obviously compressed. I would guess that a lot of compression is coming from a combination of the amp, along with consistent playing, as well as some tape compresssion and what not.
Guitar -- played very clean through a clean amp. Two tracks mic'ed head on, I would guess with a 57 against the grille or similar; one for the main rhythm, dry. Another track with the "chucking" harmonics. Both panned right of center.
Interesting ... almost sounds like the reverb on the harmonic plucking thing is panned left. Nifty. And it definitely sounds like a spring type reverb with a bit of a predelay to it.
Guitar solo ... pretty cool, actually. Sounds like it was played through a leslie. Possibly two speakers there, with each one mic'ed up and panned just right and left of center; with some spring reverb on there as well.
Backing vocals; Sounds like a very small group of ladies (2 or 3 tops) in front of a single mic (or on either side of a figure-8). Triple tracked. Each part of the harmony sung in unison; During mixing the soprano part panned left, first alto panned right, and lower alto part up center. Sounds like a plate reverb on there. Not overly obvious, but with a noticeable tail. No other effects detectable. Not much comp or eq.
Lead vocals; sounds like they were actually double-tracked. That would be my guess, but it sounds like they kind of cleverly tucked one of the takes underneath so as to be sneaky about it. Some slap-back on the voice. But rather than a delay, it sounds more to me like a plate reverb with a enough pre-delay so as to give it a slap-back effect. Either that or they've got some combo of slap-back delay with some reverb on the tail. The delay / predelay is panned / spread out as well. Pretty cheezy, but sorta' cool for the era, I guess.
Now a very popular technique used for the monster truck ads on the radio. The coolest and simultaneously gayest part of the whole thing ... is the hard-panned doubled things that come in during the choruses... the name of them escaped me. It's not a harpsichord, but it is kind of similar and it produces what amounts to a toy piano.
Don't tell me, I'll think of the name!Anyway, they got two tracks of that on the chorus; each one plucking away on the same part and hard-panned right and left. It's good and common to do that sort of thing; panning stuff that's in the higher registers, like cymbals and hand percussion, etc. As stuff in the higher registers is much more directional, and thus helps spread things out more within the stereo field.
I was hoping that you were going to pick Yes - Close to the Edge.
qiktune
New member
........and again!
Well, all I wanted to know was what were those sparkly things going on the chorus ROFLMFAO!!!
The ladies on backing vocals are actually Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham
Daisy, you've just blown my friggin mind!!!
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
For guitar it also sounds like a compressed strat with chorus, but I'm listening to an mp3 online. Background vox seem to have a touch of pitch shifting added, back then it may have been done with tape. This may also account for the slight delay since the speed of the machine would have been slowed down a bit. IIRC I read somewhere that Fleetwood Mac used to record vox on a varispeed machine and cut versions slightly slow and fast for this type of effect.
An interview:
http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/qa/walteregan_qa1.htm
I wouldn't mind that, actually a fav album of mine. I have a hard time resisting the attraction of a good mellotron part for some reason. Prob due to stoner periods that I went through in youth.
An interview:
http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/qa/walteregan_qa1.htm
I was hoping that you were going to pick Yes - Close to the Edge.
I wouldn't mind that, actually a fav album of mine. I have a hard time resisting the attraction of a good mellotron part for some reason. Prob due to stoner periods that I went through in youth.
Last edited:
mshilarious
Banned
It's not a harpsichord, but it is kind of similar and it produces what amounts to a toy piano.
Clavichord
Celesta
I'm not listening to the track, just taking wild guesses
qiktune
New member
I've been tooling around with my daughters' little casio keyboard and it has a sound on it called "bandneon" (whatever the hell that is) that sound kinda similar.
G
guitarboi89
New member
http://mp3.washingtonpost.com/browse/legal_agreement.shtml?song_id=5996
free legal download linked of walter's website
will post later
free legal download linked of walter's website
will post later
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Thanks for the link
. Based upon that MP3...As one of the classic park-your-car-out-at-Lover's-Point make out tunes, I found it interesting - even if maybe only coincidental (maybe not, who knows?) - that this song is at least partly mixed to take advantage of play on a car stereo in such situations with the gal in the right passanger seat and the guy in the left driver's seat. The main male vocal seems panned just slightly left with the main verse backup vocals somewhat mid-left, and reverb from both of those lightly filling the hole at mid-right. On a standard 2-channel car stereo of the day, this would give the effect to the person in the passenger seat of having their seat being somewhat in the audience, being sung to more or less from the left side of the dashboard, right behind the head of the guy leaning over
.The mix is built around that dynamic mostly, whether that was it's actual intention or not, with most of the musical *backing* action behind of the vocals happening pretty much down the center. It's at the intro bars, the chorus' and the instrumental bridge when/where the pan soundstage purposely expands, having the effect of bringing the instruments forward for effect, collapsing back to the slightly left leaning vocals for dominance for each verse. Even the Fisher-Price piano collapses to a plucked/muted guitar (or is that the keyboard still?) right down the center with the snare during the verses, expanding out to the panned keys in the chorus. Same with the guitar solo bridge is hard panned with it's own delay, but collapses - or at least retreats to the background shythm gits - during the verses in order to let the vocals come back to the front of our ears.
To make sure the hard panned showcases doen't just totally drown out the vocals and eveything else, though, the engineer does a nice job of simultaneously expanding the mid-left backup singers with what sounds like maybe a slight delay to fill in and reenforce the reverb hole on the mid right. The drums, which are not fancy and have most of their sound coming down the middle, add some fireworks exploding over the guy's head over the top of the choruses with the cymblas crashing pretty moderately left.
Nice use of the rear pickup on the guitar solo to give it that 50's-stroll/make-out sound, as well as the lower register to counterpoint and balance against the otherise dominant upper mids coming from the female background vocals.
A refreshing change from standard LCR panning, incorporating at least 5 points of pan (adding at least mid-left and mid-right) an unconventional off-center base mix focus to the left for emphasis, yet balances nicely when it needs to, with plenty of dynamic movement in all three dimensions. Not bad. I haven't heard that song in a while; this was the first time I ever listened to that song with an engineer's ear. Back then usually it was with an ear clouded by a few Schlitz Malt Liquor tall boys trying to figure out how to steal second
.G.
qiktune
New member
Wow SouthSIDE.....
Do you think that those types of placements in the stereo field are all conscious decisions made by the engineer based on where/when he thought THE most likely place it would be played (in your example, a car stereo) or did the engineer (in this case Lindsey Buckingham) just go with whatever sounded most pleasing to him?
I guess what I'm asking is along the same lines as the thread in the songwriting forum....theory vs instinct?
To try to explain myself a bit better - if I'm sitting in my home studio "today" mixing music I hope to expose to the masses, should I be thinking that this stuff is more than likely only ever going to be heard as a mp3 on an ipod or via a desktop (because I don't have a a record contract and/or radio airplay)......should I take that into consideration when mixing and a/b my mixes on the appropriate speakers and format or should I stay with the tried and true way of mixing and let the end user eq it themselves with windows media player?
I hope someone understands what I'm asking.....
Do you think that those types of placements in the stereo field are all conscious decisions made by the engineer based on where/when he thought THE most likely place it would be played (in your example, a car stereo) or did the engineer (in this case Lindsey Buckingham) just go with whatever sounded most pleasing to him?
I guess what I'm asking is along the same lines as the thread in the songwriting forum....theory vs instinct?
To try to explain myself a bit better - if I'm sitting in my home studio "today" mixing music I hope to expose to the masses, should I be thinking that this stuff is more than likely only ever going to be heard as a mp3 on an ipod or via a desktop (because I don't have a a record contract and/or radio airplay)......should I take that into consideration when mixing and a/b my mixes on the appropriate speakers and format or should I stay with the tried and true way of mixing and let the end user eq it themselves with windows media player?
I hope someone understands what I'm asking.....
qiktune
New member
Just did a quick search for an interview relating to this song but only found this...Q & A between Walter Egan and a fan.
What was it like working with Lindsey Buckingham? Was he a perfectionist then when he produced Magnet and Steel as he seems to be now?I think he is a complete genius but was he hard to work with? (Karan Ferguson, Scandia, Minnesota, USA)
Hey Karan, working with Lindsey was actually fun in those days, except when Stevie was in the studio (they were kind of at odds at that point). However I think he became more of a perfectionist as he went on, since it only took us about 2 1/2 months to do our record. He got better at perfectionism as he got more practiced at it I guess. Thanks for the question.
link to the article http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/qa/walteregan_qa1.htm
What was it like working with Lindsey Buckingham? Was he a perfectionist then when he produced Magnet and Steel as he seems to be now?I think he is a complete genius but was he hard to work with? (Karan Ferguson, Scandia, Minnesota, USA)
Hey Karan, working with Lindsey was actually fun in those days, except when Stevie was in the studio (they were kind of at odds at that point). However I think he became more of a perfectionist as he went on, since it only took us about 2 1/2 months to do our record. He got better at perfectionism as he got more practiced at it I guess. Thanks for the question.
link to the article http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/qa/walteregan_qa1.htm
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
Hmmm.. I thought I posted that 3 days ago. I guess that was a waste of bandwidth.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I can't speak as to Buckingham's specific motives with this mix, because I don't know. But in general, yeah, those kinds of things have been known to be a consideration.
There was a time when stereo was just starting to become popular/mainstream in cars when there was a theory that said one should throw the balance of the mix slightly right so that it would sound balanced to the person in the driver's seat; which in the majority of cars is the only occupant, and is an occupant in every car. Others, like Brian Eno or Alan Parsons make some compositions that have interesting effects that can only really be discerened in headphones but have little use in most other listening situations.
In this case ask yourself: why would he shift the balance of the vocals in the verses - and therfore the balance of the energy in them - to the left? It's not because there isn't sonic room in the center. It isn't because it's counterbalancing some guitar or piano accompaniment on the right. It's not because having the song focus go off center during the versus is naturally asthetically pleasing. It's not to balance things out for the driver (it'll do just the opposite for him.) And I refuse to believe that Buckingham did anything in the studio "just for the hell of it". No, IMHO (FWTW) he moved the vocal balance during the verses a bit left with a big hole for their verb on the right, setting up a bit of an angled soundstage for a reason. The reason I postulate is just pure guess/whimsy/speculation, but it's as good of one as I can think of.
But I think more important is that the entire mix is designed well with balance in all four dimensions in mind (pan, depth, frequency and drama/dynamics.) In that light, yes, there is indeed intent and puropse on Buckingham's mind. The tone and register of the guitar bridge is not accidental, Neither are the creative use of the edges of pan space to bring focus forward - which I found interesting, as I'm used to doing it the opposite way; bringing focus forward by bringing it front and center - or the increased spread of the backup vocals during the choruses, etc.
These were all conscious decisions in the design of the mix. Some perhoaps more instinctive than others, but purposeful and not just arbitrary nonetheless.
G.
qiktune
New member
Sorry......
D
danny.guitar
Guest
The engineer's name is Lindsey Buckingham? And it's a dude?
qiktune
New member
Yep.....why the question marks?
D
Daisy
Banned
Funny.
I was actually thinking the quiet, chucky / harmonic guitar piece just right of center during the versus ... reminded me of Fleetwood Mac.
I'd bet good money it was Lindsay doing double duty as guitarist on that tune as well.
.
I was actually thinking the quiet, chucky / harmonic guitar piece just right of center during the versus ... reminded me of Fleetwood Mac.
I'd bet good money it was Lindsay doing double duty as guitarist on that tune as well.
.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
And here's the kicker, Danny. He nailed Stevie Nicks, who is not a dudeThe engineer's name is Lindsey Buckingham? And it's a dude?
.You know it's a new century when you run across someone who is not familiar with the members of Fleetwood Mac. Tusk, tusk.
G.
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
And here's the kicker, Danny. He nailed Stevie Nicks, who is not a dude
You know it's a new century when you run across someone who is not familiar with the members of Fleetwood Mac. Tusk, tusk.
G.
Peter Green was replaced by a chick?