Dynamic vs Condenser (micing amp)

  • Thread starter Thread starter David Katauskas
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David Katauskas

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I'm currently recording my guitar amp (dirty sound) with my MXL 901 condenser mic. The sound is very harsh. I've tried all kinds of things (mic position, gain levels, amp eq levels).

I'm starting to narrow it down to 2 things. The first is the type of mic...should I be using a dynamic mic instead (such as the e609)? Or, is my solid-state amp the cause of all the harshness? Maybe it's both.

Thanks in advance for you comments.
 
Probably both. Condenser mics can be great as room/distant mics for distorted guitar, but very few work well for close miking. Dynamics like the 57 and e609 will probably work better for close miking applications.
 
condenser alone can indeed sound very harsh on amps but if you couple it with a dynamic it can sound great
i've had great results using a sm57 in center and a C1 on the border of the cone...I got a big fat tone
tried several methods and mics and this gave me the biggest sound
 
I'm off to pick up a new mic...Thanks for the info. :D
 
Sometimes condensors can be great for amp recording, but can tend to give you a bit of a tizzy high end thing that just rattles around inside your ear during mixdown and seems impossible to get rid of. Of course the source of this is mainly the speaker...then placement should be looked it...and it better sound right in the first place.

I enjoy ribbon and dynamic mics for guitar cab work. Distant LDC use is great for room stuff but so can ribbons and dynamics. A condensor mic will typically net you more high end detail (don't discount trying SDC's here) which can help with delivering some space using one as a distance mic. But lately, I seem to never reach for a condensor for close mic'ing but that's just me.

An SM57 would probably smoke that MXL on a cab, but the MXL's current placement might just need some adjusting? Have you moved it around much during tracking? You never know, 3-4" further away and slightly off axis and you may very well find your sound.

War
 
Great post, Warren.

One of the things that bugs me about the SM-57s and a few other dynamics out there is that peak at 6 khz. Now when you're talking about a cleanish guitar tone (anything from mellow to blues), this isn't such a bad thing at all. But honesely, I can't think of a worse place for a spike to occur for a heavy guitar sound. Unfortunately, an even worse peak for heavy guitar is around 12 khz, which is where you usually see a peak in a lot of condensers. I'd need extra hearing protection if I were to use a Marshall condenser on heavy guitar. Yikes. Combine that with their unusual sensitivy, and it just isn't very practical in that application.

For clean guitar, I really like the sound of a Large Diapgragm vocal condenser. Just about any one, really. Even the cheaper ones sound good. As for the heavier stuff, my sleeper favorite is the Oktava MK-319. I like it there every bit as much as I do some of the nicer dynamics like the SM-7 or RE-20.
 
I've had more success with an AKG 414 than ANY mic I've tried. It absolutely cooks... here's the thing... A)less gain, always less gain. B) no freakin' presence knob at all C)cut the volume a touch and put your ear where the sound comes from, and then adjust EQ... a lot of people EQ the sound from where they stand. or check the sound in the control room and then go back or move the mic slightly. too harsh, try off axis or not so centered
 
I have a real problem with dirty guitars but for clean the best I've come across is a combination of Shure 545 and Senn MD421, but pretty close.

I think my sloppy playing doesn't help with the dirty ones ... but I'm a pianist and a drummer, I can't be expected to do everything, right? :D
 
my fav. quote to use to players who can't get it right and then complain to me... "I didn't ask if it was easy, I asked you to do it."

it does bring up a good point though... you may want to examine playing technique too... how do heavier palm mutes sound, or playing a bit further from the bridge?

and yes, most every solid state amp sucks reaaal bad for recording heavy stuff. you want power tube distortion, not crappy fuzz... unless you want crappy fuzz.
 
Thanks again for the input. If changing mics doesn't help, then I'll be looking for another recording amp.
I recently bought a new Crate XT120R with their new 'FlexWave' technology. I was hoping that it would be different than the other solid state amps...we'll see...but probably not.
 
David Katauskas said:
I'm currently recording my guitar amp (dirty sound) with my MXL 901 condenser mic. The sound is very harsh.
Click to expand...

David Katauskas said:
I recently bought a new Crate XT120R with their new 'FlexWave' technology. I was hoping that it would be different than the other solid state amps...
Click to expand...


So you're mic'ing a Solid State Crate amp with a condenser mic, and it sounds harsh.

You realize that's kind of like saying you bought an ice pick, stabbed yourself with it, and it hurt. :D
 
chessrock
Yeah, I know better now. Learning from mistakes is one way to learn...but painful and time consuming.
I can appreciate your colorful analogy. Thankfully, I can take the abuse being the new kid on the block. :D
 
Na, I'm being kind of a prick, actually. :D

Honestly, though, I've recorded a lot of amps, and those Crates are about the most difficult to get good tracks with. I've futzed with them endlessly and they always sound pretty much the way you describe. Sorry for putting it so bluntly. I need to work on that.
 
Groove Tubes GT 44 Tube hands down over every single mic I own. Super sleeper that once was a totally amazing price.
 
chessrock said:
So you're mic'ing a Solid State Crate amp with a condenser mic, and it sounds harsh.

You realize that's kind of like saying you bought an ice pick, stabbed yourself with it, and it hurt. :D
Click to expand...

Ow.... :p

War
 
Oh...new thought...the E/V ND468 can be a smokin' cab mic as well. Great for when you need that "just right" image (sort of small-ish and doesn't take up a lot of space in the mix) and good rejection. When my buddy and I jam together in the room his guitar amp is maybe 5 feet from my kit, the ND468 is maybe 6-8" out facing the speaker, facing away from the drums.

Upon playback it's the same old thing, virtually NO drums in the guitar track. That is one tight pattern on that mic and it sounds good.

War
 
Warhead said:
Upon playback it's the same old thing, virtually NO drums in the guitar track. That is one tight pattern on that mic and it sounds good.
Click to expand...


Ever try it on snare?
 
The key to getting a good sound from your crate is to turn your lows down to about 7-8o'clock, and your highs about 12-1 o'clock, and run your gain on the rythm channell only at about 10-11o'clock. if you have a preasence knob turn that almost all the way off or just barely on.

this has worked for me in the past. Im not saying this is the best sound, just what worked for me to get a good sound from a crate. You'll be suprised how much gain there still is there, if you need more for a lead set up your gain boost to just barely add more to it.

give it a try, you might like it.

yep
METALJ !!
 
Wow!

Wow...what a difference! I picked up the e609 and it records exactly the way my amp sounds! This is just awesome!

The sounds is so much warmer and full. The knob twiddlin' on my amp helped out a lot too (thanks metalj). The next step is to swap out my amp.

I sincerely want to thank everyone for their input...now I have a new toy to play with...I'm going start laying some tracks. Later.
 
I recently tried out a great micing technique for guitar cabs involving a dynamic and a large diaphragm condensor used together. I used an SM57 and a CAD M37. Have them pointed in an X configuration so each mic is angled diagonally compared to the face of the guitar cab and pointed towards the wall of the speaker. When I tried this I wound up situating both mics basically in front of the center of the cone, but angled so they weren't actually pointing at the cone. You have to mess around a little bit to make sure they're not out of phase with each other, but once you do you get a really big guitar sound. I only got to record a snippet like this, and it was a good sound but I wanted a few more highs so the next time I'll probably point the mics more towards the center of the cone.
 
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