DVerb eminating extremely loud digital static noise...

[Monsterpop]

hi Joseph

i dont see how to select the option for "Partition"

"edit"
strange,i edited this earlier to say,,
i found that option,as i was looking at"My Book"rather than the part saying how much space there was

so i THINK its done it correctly
as ive opened up a session and its saved to the new drive

thank you Joseph, thats fantastic help and advice
and one problem solved

 

[RD423]

Normally when I get that sound it's when I set up let's say bus 3-4 then i forget and route bus 3-4 on top of the aux input that i set to be 3-4. So just make sure everything is routed correctly. Because as others have said it's not a dverb issue something else is going on there.

 

[Monsterpop]

im afraid i havent even gotten into any kind of routing
and im still adding reverb to separate tracks as and when i need it
which i know is far from ideal

thanks a lot for the reply

 

[pezking]

Surely it's just as easy to put D-Verb on an aux channel and route a send from each channel you want reverb on to that aux channel?

D-Verb is a piece of crap anyway - think about getting a decent reverb plugin for anything serious

 

[Joseph Hanna]

D-Verb is a piece of crap anyway

I tried to bite my tongue and move on from this but.....that's a BOLD statement and I can't put into words how much I disagree with this.

Sonically. Why is D-Verb a piece of crap??

 

[Monsterpop]

Surely it's just as easy to put D-Verb on an aux channel and route a send from each channel you want reverb on to that aux channel?

D-Verb is a piece of crap anyway - think about getting a decent reverb plugin for anything serious

im sure it is for you mate, but i havent learned how to do that yet

 

[Monsterpop]

Surely it's just as easy to put D-Verb on an aux channel and route a send from each channel you want reverb on to that aux channel?

D-Verb is a piece of crap anyway - think about getting a decent reverb plugin for anything serious

i think Dverb is alright to be honest
and ive played on many albums using it

though i dare say there are better things around,

i have no money to buy them hence,,
its Dverb for me for the foreseeable future

 

[RD423]

I tried to bite my tongue and move on from this but.....that's a BOLD statement and I can't put into words how much I disagree with this.

Sonically. Why is D-Verb a piece of crap??

I completely agree, In my experience the only people who talk bad about dverb are those who don't know how to use it properly.

 

[Monsterpop]

I completely agree, In my experience the only people who talk bad about dverb are those who don't know how to use it properly.

aaah,but then theres people like me

who have no idea how to use it properly, but still dont think its crap
hehe

 

[pezking]

Whilst I agree it's a bold statement - it's my opinion and not necessarily fact.

The reason I don't like it is because it is a delay line based reverb; and you can hear that. As it tails off you can hear the individual delays; it sounds like a cheap digital reverb; which it is.

Suggesting that I don't know how to use it properly; I find laughable.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

To simultaneously add to the current conversation, and get the thread back on-topic, if DVerb is emanating a terrible 0db white/static horrible noise when loaded up, then I'd say it fucking blows.

 

[Joseph Hanna]

I respectfully disagree

The reason I don't like it is because it is a delay line based reverb; and you can hear that.

All reverb, be it the Lexicon 960 or your local cathedral, is delay. This is NOT reserved for cheap reverbs. The old web fueled forum based test about acutely listening to solo'd reverb tracks and basing the general worth of the unit on how it's tails decay is as FAR from a musical based experiment as one can possibly get. You simply DO NOT hear reverbs tails in even a moderate dense mix. That and a great majority of time tails are not what makes a reverb sit.

The D-Verb algorithms need to be understood and MUCH MORE importantly the instrument and or voice that's being treated with D-Verb needs to understood sonically before the effect will sit properly in a mix. A dramatic EQ is absolutely common with reverbs. I've hi-passed all the way up to 1000 and low-passed all the way down to 3200. I recall a 10dB bump at 750 for a sax solo.

The D-Verb's "non-linear" settings are some of the best roomish verbs I've ever heard.

Further. Most if not all the ill informed web bashing about D-Verb are in comparison to hardware based units. I have an old MPX 1000 and a newer TC M-3000. Probably the industries leading mid priced hardware verbs. In both of those boxes my favorite reverb presets have delay AND chorus built into the patch. Something you must carefully construct with D-Verb.

It is that delay and chorus that help not only extent the tails but also help to blend the tails so the inevitable decay cannot be detected.

You'll also find some clever engineer's who have discovered a bus to a tad of distortion also adds to the presence and naturalness of how reverb sits. Listen to Tears for Fears "Raoul and the Kings of Spain" for some sonic magic along these lines.

All of the above standard engineering techniques must be applied to D-Verb before the plug starts to come alive. In a world of engineers who judge by presets it's easy to see why it gets smashed.

All of that said, everyone has there favorites and there are sonically many flavors out there. For some instruments I much prefer the D-Verb over the M-3000 which is DECIDEDLY NOT a cheap reverb.

Suggesting that I don't know how to use it properly; I find laughable.

I don't know your skill set level so I really don't doubt your talent. That said I do know that there is an entire generation of web based engineers that rarely get to the stage of doing the down and dirty, stick with it, explore, try new ideas applied to the equipment at hand, before they RUSH out and BUY something.

The D-Verb is as strong as the talent thats in command.

 

[Monsterpop]

To simultaneously add to the current conversation, and get the thread back on-topic, if DVerb is emanating a terrible 0db white/static horrible noise when loaded up, then I'd say it fucking blows.

aaah,,but we dont know if its the Dverb that was causing it mate

 

[pezking]

I respectfully disagree too!

All reverb, be it the Lexicon 960 or your local cathedral, is delay. This is NOT reserved for cheap reverbs.

In a literal sense, yes, but not necessarily the way in which it (in terms of artificial reverbs) is simulated. There's nothing wrong with a delay line based reverb - until you can hear the individual delays - then it sounds like a delay, or to give it a different term; an echo.

You simply DO NOT hear reverbs tails in even a moderate dense mix.

You're not wrong there but you do hear them on quieter mixes - where there is a large dynamic range such as in classical music.

Further. Most if not all the ill informed web bashing about D-Verb are in comparison to hardware based units. I have an old MPX 1000 and a newer TC M-3000. Probably the industries leading mid priced hardware verbs. In both of those boxes my favorite reverb presets have delay AND chorus built into the patch. Something you must carefully construct with D-Verb.

My "bashing" is not ill informed - it's from my own meandering experiences. I've used both hardware and software units; Lexicon 480L for example, as well as software reverbs from Waves, Sonnox and others. D-Verb doesn't compare.

If I have a reverb unit, I don't expect to have to add chorus to it just to get it sounding acceptable. That's effectively saying you can't use the plugin for what its designed for, unless you purchase a chorus too...

I'm well aware that EQ and reverb often go hand in hand - but that doesn't change the fact that I can hear the individual delays when using it; it sounds like ringing you get in square rooms; flutter echo.

That said I do know that there is an entire generation of web based engineers that rarely get to the stage of doing the down and dirty, stick with it, explore, try new ideas applied to the equipment at hand, before they RUSH out and BUY something.

The D-Verb is as strong as the talent thats in command.

It's my job to mess around with plugins and kit - especially within Pro Tools. I also study for a degree in Sound Recording, where we are encouraged to experiment and develop our own techniques and processes.

Whilst I recognise that D-Verb can be messed around with (by adding chorus, and EQ etc.) and maybe made to sound acceptable - I would rather something which sounded good in it's bog standard form and sounded amazing with tweaking. I need a reverb I can quickly throw on a bus when I'm tracking or song writing but still sound alright. In my opinion D-Verb doesn't compare to some other reverbs out there.

 

[Joseph Hanna]

To simultaneously add to the current conversation, and get the thread back on-topic, if D-Verb is emanating a terrible 0db white/static horrible noise when loaded up, then I'd say it fucking blows.

I don't follow the logic

There are MILLIONS, maybe more, sessions running happily out there with D-Verb. Let's not confuse a tried and true plug-in with a system that not set up properly.

Something "fucking blows" in this situation but it not an ill-conceived piece of software

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

aaah,,but we dont know if its the Dverb that was causing it mate

In my case, I'm absolutely certain DVerb is directly related to my problem. I created a test-session in which I could consistently create this issue with only a Mono Track with a Bus 1-2 send, an Aux track with a Bus 1-2 input and an instance of DVerb, and a Stereo Master Track. 90% of the time, when I opened up the project, I got the horrible sound. When I bypassed (but not disabled) the DVerb plugin, it still occasionally caused the problem. When I disabled DVerb, the problem disappeared 100%.

I don't follow the logic

There are MILLIONS, maybe more, sessions running happily out there with D-Verb. Let's not confuse a tried and true plug-in with a system that not set up properly.

Something "fucking blows" in this situation but it not an ill-conceived piece of software

I have one of the most common system out there: a MacBook Pro w/ 10.4 (fully updated), a Digi002, and Pro Tools 7.3. A good portion of the millions of users out there have this set up, and most likely have it set up the same way I do. I installed the program exactly how the manual instructed me to do so, in addition to talking it through with a Digidesign rep. I've cleared my preferences completely, and will probably end up just purchasing Pro Tools 8 so I can upgrade to 10.5 once all of the bugs are out of both. Until then, I still have to have my clients remove their headphones when I load up a session including DVerb, as it is quite deafening

 

[Joseph Hanna]

I believe ya Steve You don't need to convince me there is a problem with D-Verb and your system.

What I try to discourage is knee-jerk reaction to software problems that can only lead one down the worst possible route to a solution.

There is nothing fundamentally flawed with D-Verb. There are little guarantee's in the tech support world and I refrain from using the term BUT..in this case I can guarantee there is not a coding problem with D-Verb. Like it or not and to NO one's fault the problem lies somewhere within YOUR system. That's where we need to look.

A few questions. I believe D-Verb has been updated several times over the years. Have you gone to Digi's site and made sure you have the latest update?

You said earlier you pitched preferences. Do you do this from the Library Folder or from the applet from the Digi site??

Do you have more than one D-Verb show up in your "Plug-In Used" Folder?

Have you verified and repaired your Mac permissions?

Have you ever installed Pro Tools without first un-installing the previous versions? Then conversely and if not have you un-installed Pro Tools and re-installed?

Have you peeked into your Library/preference folder to see if there is a duplicate copy of the actual Pro Tools icon preferences?

 

[Joseph Hanna]

In a literal sense, yes, but not necessarily the way in which it (in terms of artificial reverbs) is simulated. There's nothing wrong with a delay line based reverb - until you can hear the individual delays - then it sounds like a delay, or to give it a different term; an echo.



You're not wrong there but you do hear them on quieter mixes - where there is a large dynamic range such as in classical music.



My "bashing" is not ill informed - it's from my own meandering experiences. I've used both hardware and software units; Lexicon 480L for example, as well as software reverbs from Waves, Sonnox and others. D-Verb doesn't compare.

If I have a reverb unit, I don't expect to have to add chorus to it just to get it sounding acceptable. That's effectively saying you can't use the plugin for what its designed for, unless you purchase a chorus too...

I'm well aware that EQ and reverb often go hand in hand - but that doesn't change the fact that I can hear the individual delays when using it; it sounds like ringing you get in square rooms; flutter echo.



It's my job to mess around with plugins and kit - especially within Pro Tools. I also study for a degree in Sound Recording, where we are encouraged to experiment and develop our own techniques and processes.

Whilst I recognise that D-Verb can be messed around with (by adding chorus, and EQ etc.) and maybe made to sound acceptable - I would rather something which sounded good in it's bog standard form and sounded amazing with tweaking. I need a reverb I can quickly throw on a bus when I'm tracking or song writing but still sound alright. In my opinion D-Verb doesn't compare to some other reverbs out there.

Yes indeed almost all of what you have here is correct!

The only point I disagree with here is your last assessment of D-Verb some how being inferior because you have to add delay and chorus. THE BEST of THE BEST (let's use the 960 as an example) use this as part of their standard presets. Because Lexicon offers you the chorus and delay built into the preset does NOT make it great in and of itself. This technique has been standard practice since the inception of the digital boxes. I can't think of any engineer I've ever worked with that defrays a reverb cause they gotta do some work to get it to sound good.

The entire decade of the eighties was defined by the early Lexicon Boxes thru the Eventide harmonizers (delayed chorus). Listen to ANY of the Pat Benatar stuff or the later Journey material for examples there in. You may or may not be able to appreciate the material but engineers were extremely creative with what is comparably (by today's standards) VERY little equipment.

My point here is the endless bashing of the D-Verb on these sites has a definitive effect on the ideas floating around in young engineers heads. I spent my early years of engineering with one reverb and one harmonizer. 10 years of using the same boxes. Learning the units. Learning their weak spots. Getting creative with routing and eq's. Learning how to get the absolute MOST out of those units. Learning how to stretch them, bend them, manipulate them and see what happens.

I wish more here would try to get musical with their own talents rather than rushing out to buy themselves into a better mix.

I would hope what ever weaknesses D-Verb provides would inspire the engineer to WORK at sonic solutions rather than a car trip to Guitar Center.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

I believe ya Steve You don't need to convince me there is a problem with D-Verb and your system.

What I try to discourage is knee-jerk reaction to software problems that can only lead one down the worst possible route to a solution.

There is nothing fundamentally flawed with D-Verb. There are little guarantee's in the tech support world and I refrain from using the term BUT..in this case I can guarantee there is not a coding problem with D-Verb. Like it or not and to NO one's fault the problem lies somewhere within YOUR system. That's where we need to look.

A few questions. I believe D-Verb has been updated several times over the years. Have you gone to Digi's site and made sure you have the latest update?

You said earlier you pitched preferences. Do you do this from the Library Folder or from the applet from the Digi site??

Do you have more than one D-Verb show up in your "Plug-In Used" Folder?

Have you verified and repaired your Mac permissions?

Have you ever installed Pro Tools without first un-installing the previous versions? Then conversely and if not have you un-installed Pro Tools and re-installed?

Have you peeked into your Library/preference folder to see if there is a duplicate copy of the actual Pro Tools icon preferences?

As an IT guy myself, I can see where you're coming from. And to answer your questions as succinctly as possible, yes I've done all things you've suggested and I've done them the correct way, with the exception of the last. The 002 came with an earlier version of Pro Tools, and I installed the update and all related patches over it. I got the update straight from a Digidesign rep, and followed all directions correctly. Unfortunately, I don't have a stand-alone installer/copy of PT 7.3, so if I re-install, it will have to be installed the same way as I originally did.

Honestly though, if the problem were a setup issue, I don't think other people would be having the same issue:

http://thewombforums.com/showthread.php?t=5576


Also, D-Verb has had odd problems like this before:

From the Digi site: "Updates for the Native Instruments PRO-52 Digi Edition included in Digi 002 Systems

Fix for the following problem:

* Loud blast of noise when using PRO-52 and D-Verb (Digi 002 version) at 96 KHz on either Mac OS or Windows XP"


And other Pro Tools users have experienced an explosively loud white noise:

http://duc.digidesign.com/archive/index.php?t-147406.html
http://duc.digidesign.com/archive/index.php?t-148672.html


The point is, I'm not the only one to have this issue. I agree with you that it is most likely some funky combination of my exact computer, possibly my version/run of the Digi002, and my version of Pro Tools/OS X, yadda yadda.

I've got other programs that I'd like to install that require 10.5, so perhaps now's a good time to upgrade PT from 7.3...

 

[Joseph Hanna]

Okay Steve

If you'd like my help you can always PM me and I'll make myself available to get your problem straighten out.

--Joseph