Duron, Athlon...which one???

[Nutdotnet]

Thought you might like this then...:

http://forums.overclockers.ws/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55166&highlight=Palomino+Morgan

Uh....what would I like about that? There is absolutely nothing there that proves that a Duron is a better processor based on clock-speed or "bang for your buck".

1. That post is almost 2 months old. Two months in the computer proc world can very well be 2 years old in "real time". Prices have fallen on all processors.

2. Even according to the thread it gives a reason why the T-bird is a better performer. "To date, no Durons run on a 133MHz front side bus. All run on a 100MHz front side bus, but many Thunderbirds run on the 133 bus. " That 133FSB is definetly a performance booster, maybe not a huge one but it still is.

So let's see.....I could spend $81 on a 1.2gig T-Bird that has 266fsb w/ 128K L1 cache and 256K L2 cache.

OR

I could save a "whole" $17 and get the 1.2 Duron that runs on a 200fsb w/128K L2 cache and 64K L1 cache.

For that $17 I would much rather take the higher cache sizes and overall better performance than buying the Duron.

Try again.

 

[Slackmaster2K]

I think the point was that the overclocked duron is a hell of a performer for the price.

I don't see any reason not to get an XP if you're getting a Tbird. In my mind, the choice would be between the Duron and the XP.

Slackmaster 2000

 

[Nutdotnet]

I think the point was that the overclocked duron is a hell of a performer for the price.

I don't see any reason not to get an XP if you're getting a Tbird. In my mind, the choice would be between the Duron and the XP.

Slackmaster 2000

That's true, they are a hell of a performer for the price, IF you get a decent proc that OCs well, your motherboard supports it, you have decent enough RAM, etc......

Remember, clock speed is not everything..........plus the average user is not going to OC their Proc. Including myself, and I consider myself NOT to be the average computer user.

 

[Basslord1124]

keep your fingers crossed...

Just emailed Asus in regards to my motherboard supporting XP processors and what the maximum speed is. I did notice something quite strange though...the A7A133 (mine's the 266) says it supports the new Athlon XP processors. The 266 just says it supports Athlon/Duron. Perhaps they are updating the 266 or something. Oh well, keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Slackmaster2K]

BTW, I am not arguing in favor of overclocking the duron as a solution here. Also, it is true that clock speed is not everything, but if increasing the clock speed of a Duron gets you the performance you require, then it gets you the performance you require. Again, it's not for everyone.

Our Duron 750 does 850 without any effort, so that's where it's set. I wouldn't buy a processor with the hopes of overclocking though.

Slackmaster 2000

 

[Sangram]

Uh, Nutdotnet, I think my first post said Duron/XP was the preferred choice, the t-Bird not being a very good option.

Oh, well. The Duron is not a "better" processor as such. You're right about the post being over two months old. But the Duron above 1.2 still has the new Morgan core. Running at a 33 Mhz disadvantage - and no, it IS a very big disadvantage because the memory is also running at 100 (unless you async it, which means one is always waiting for the other) - the Duron 1.2 matches the T-bird, clock for clock in most or all benchmarks.

Which means that for your $17, you get a proc that runs at 133 (266 DDR), 256 Cache L2, but absolutely no perf. difference in the real world. The Morgan core compensates beautifully for the lower amount of L2 Cache and the bus speed. Also since the Morgans produce less heat and consume less power, it has other benefits as well. You can have lower-speed Fans and power supplies, which reduce noise and heat consumption further. Not much, but it adds up.

But hey, this is my personal opinion. If you still wanna get the Athlon (I would recommend the XP anyday), please do so. For one, I haven't been able to find a Direct comparison between eually clocked t-Birds and Durons at any of the major review sites. That's strange, too....

Basslord: The Asus A7A266 will run the Athlon XP. All that's needed is Bios update. Your BIOS should be above version 1006, AFAIK. It doesn't say so on the Asus site, but it does run XPs. BTW you should give this post a read if you're running anything on an A7A266:

http://www.amdmb.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=104421

Also check out the sigs. A lot of people running XP on that mobo.

Sang

 

[Nutdotnet]

Yeah I guess that would be the tell tale sign eh? Get a 1.2 T-Bird, and a 1.2 Duron, stick them in and run them on the same motherboard. That would definetly tell what proc performed better. I still say the T-Bird would take the cake. But I could be wrong.

 

[Basslord1124]

Basslord: The Asus A7A266 will run the Athlon XP. All that's needed is Bios update. Your BIOS should be above version 1006, AFAIK. It doesn't say so on the Asus site, but it does run XPs. BTW you should give this post a read if you're running anything on an A7A266:

http://www.amdmb.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=104421

Also check out the sigs. A lot of people running XP on that mobo.

Sang

Now after taking a glimpse of that I'm kinda concerned if I should maybe rethink my mobo decision. I'm thinking I will get a mobo that supports some faster processors (you've beat me this time slack grrrr ). Although I will probably stick with one of the slower Athlon XP processors. Or hey maybe by the time I finally decide to start buying some of the components the XP processors will have went down in price and I'll get a faster one hehe. That'd be sweet and probably will happen I figure. Anybody got any recommendations for some mobo's to check out that are maybe around $100 (give or take a few dollars) that support XP's. Soundcard's the Audiophile. And tell me are Via chipsets really that bad? Confused me there, and I don't like being confused Thanks everyone.

 

[Sangram]

Via chipsets were pretty bad earlier. As a matter of fact, if you're looking at an Intel PIII/Celly solution, you shouldn't go anywhere near a Via chipset. But for AMDs and P4s, Via is hands down the best chipset out there now, far superior to both AMD and Intel's own chipsets, from a performance standpoint. Sure, Intel chipsets are almost guaranteed to be compatible with all types of hardware, and AMD chipsets offer rock-solid stability, but then so does Via. One of the new KT266A boards will do you fine. These names come to mind:

1. Asus A7V266-E (onboard RAID and 6-channel audio)
2. Soyo Dragon Plus K7
3. Soltek SL-75DRV4 (the cheaper option, but a beautiful board. I have the DRV2, its predecessor, and I love it! not a single BSOD running over a month now, except when I push it beyond limits)
4. Abit KR7A-RAID

Try researching the decision a bit. Look at Anandtech and Tom's. Both have extensive reviews and shootouts between KT266A boards, also include comparisons with AMD chipsets and the new nVidia n-Force (not, incidentally, worth it). Try thje forums I put you on, see what people are getting, and their experiences with the boards.

If you still want an AMD chipset, try the Gigabyte 7DX-R. It's one of the best AMD 760 boards out there, and keeps up with the new KT266A, but just about. Support for XP is also flaky on this board, but it runs fine.

Best of Luck!

Sang

 

[SirRiff]

Reviews

Greetings,

I have been reading all the online reviews of 266a mobos for the last 6 months and there are alot that put the Soyo Dragon Plus K7 at the top in terms of features; RAID, LAN, onboard audio, stability and such. While the Epox (not sure model) goes higher for hard core overclocking, I'm not sure hardcore overclocking is necessary these days (I could be wrong). Asus A7V266-E seems to be a good board too from the online reviews.

I figure I gonna wait to get some cash during the summer, get a Soyo Dragon+, XP 2000+ (if it gets cheaper, otherwise 1800+) and 3X 256 crucial ram- what could be better? Its a setup that will last me a decade. Chuck a Radeon 8500 with duel monitor support on there and you are SET!

I hate computers
SirRiff

 

[Sangram]

Re: Reviews

Greetings,


I figure I gonna wait to get some cash during the summer, get a Soyo Dragon+, XP 2000+ (if it gets cheaper, otherwise 1800+) and 3X 256 crucial ram- what could be better? Its a setup that will last me a decade. Chuck a Radeon 8500 with duel monitor support on there and you are SET!

I hate computers

SirRiff

I tell you why we all hate computers. This summer, the Athlon XP might be outdated by the new Thoroughbred (0.13 Athlon) chips. They might need new motherboards/chipsets. They WILL cost more, too. So if you buy an XP this summer, you'll be buying obsolete stuff. Cheaper, but obsolete! Sucks, doesn't it??

Also, the GeForce 4 might be better for a dual monitor/graphics horse. Better performance than the ATI, with full DX8 support, and some really good architecture. Not the GEForce 4 MX, though.

The ATI cards seem to have better image quality overall, but that's probably because ATI has been manufacturing all its own cards up until now. High-quality (expensive!) cards from Leadtek, Asus etc. will offer great image quality, as good as the Radeons because they use high-quality parts.

Sang

 

[Basslord1124]

Thanks for your help Sangram. I think what happened is I narrowed my choices to only those mobo/chipsets Midiman recommended that they said work best (even though they said most Pentium/AMD stuff works well with their products). After looking at the requirements for the Audiophile it pretty much said it supports all major platforms and software or something along those lines. So I should be pretty much safe and must say that it seems to be a versatile line of soundcards. But anyways, I'll give those other mobo's a look and see what strikes my fancy. To be quite honest, I don't really think I'll hassle with RAID...RAID is like data transfer that supports big files right? sort of like SCSI?

XP might be outdated, woohoo, my prediction was right. I probably can then pick up a faster XP for a low price. And I thought Monday's were supposed to suck

And I don't think it's that you "hate" computers in general (although then again maybe you do) but I see it as hating the technological movement. 1 day the hottest thing is a processor that does a gig, next day you'll see a 2 gig. I wonder when the madness will actually stop...like if they'll ever find a spot where they can't get the processors any faster. Is it possible?

 

[Basslord1124]

one last thing

what are some brands of mobo's to avoid? Let me guess, anything that's almost too cheap to believe? LOL. But if there are any brands I need to avoid let me know. Thanks all.

 

[Basslord1124]

goodness, so many mobo's I could puke

I've looked at a lot of the mobos suggested and I must say whew, what work LOL. I've narrowed it down I guess you can say. Right now it's either the Asus A7V266, Abit KR7A, or the Gigabyte GA-7DX+. I noticed the Soyo got the pick of the litter but tis a wee bit much. I'm really unsure about the Gigabyte, not the exact model you recommended but it seemed to offer a lot for a small price. Even the Soltek SL-75DRV4 seemed quite nice and is a possibility too. Ughh I don't know, I need to take a break from this lol.

 

[Sangram]

I'm sorry I didn't come back sooner. My win2000 install crapped out last night and I'm off the 'net till I finish installing it, alaways a nightmare during the work week.

Some brands to try and stay clear of: FIC, PCChips, Mercury, MSI (MSI is actually pretty good but their Athlon offering on KT 266A is pathetic).

RAID is not worth messing with. It (And SCSI) are alternative ways of running your hard disk setup. You need a minimum of 2 disks for RAID, SCSI will work with just one. Both help get over the slow IDE interface. A single SCSI disk will be a screamer, beating even the best IDE RAID (RAID with ordinary hard disks) by a huge margin in performance terms. But SCSI is terribly expensive. For audio work, you should look at two good IDE disks, 7,200 rpm types. IBM Deskstar is worth a look , as are some of the Maxtor drives. One should have all your OS and programs (~20 GB) and the other audio (AS big as you can afford, 40GB is bare minimum).

If you combine the Soltek SL-75 DRV4 with one of the new ATA-133 MAxtor drives, you'll be at the top end of the IDE setup. ATA 133 are slightly (~10-15%) quicker than the ATA-100 drives. Not much, but a little quicker.

Among the boards you've finally come down to, It's very difficult to choose. You'll now have to look at individual board features, price, and even the Cloour (sic) of the boards to come to a decision. I would still punt one for the Soltek since I'm hardcore dedicated to my board. The Asus will be reliable, stable and fast out-of-the-box, and the Abit got the Gold recommendation from Anandtech, a site I respect very much. So, well...

Actually, I love technology. I love the fact that I can buy a whole bells and whistles system for the same amount of money it would have cost to buy a hard disk, back in the 80s. I love that my mom moved from a bucket to a washing machine. It's just that tomorrow, my computers become obsolete. But so does my TV, my car, my washing machine, but you don't see me rushing out to change them every now and then, do you? I think it's our fault, no the manufacturers'. I think we make ourself believe we need faster machines, more RAM, bigger screens...

Yes, nurse, I'll take my medicine now, thank you

Sang

 

[SirRiff]

Well...

Greetings,

In response to obselete talk, if you buy a moderately high end system right now (ie 1800XP, 266a MOBO, 512 RAM) your hardware will be ahead of softwear for many years. Just because someone increases the FSB by 1hz don't mean your slower. Even 5400rpm hard drivees can stream 10+ 24bit tracks (which i have never tried, but it amazes me). My 486 is obsolete because it can't run a modern OS, can you imagine how long it will take the Athlon XP's to go that way? A long damn time. Softwear is expensiv to develop, hardwear is relatively cheap.

SirRiff

 

[Nutdotnet]

Sangram- I don't know where you got your info from on the MSI KT266a mobo, but why do you think the MSI board is pathetic?

I have that motherboard, it I have had great success with it. Stable as a rock. More stable than my Asus A7V133, which actually suprised me.

I know people have had problems with that particular board, but people at the time of my purchase were having more problems with the Shuttle, Epox, and Gigabyte boards that I could have chosen from.

 

[Sangram]

Sangram- I don't know where you got your info from on the MSI KT266a mobo, but why do you think the MSI board is pathetic?

I have that motherboard, it I have had great success with it. Stable as a rock. More stable than my Asus A7V133, which actually suprised me.

I know people have had problems with that particular board, but people at the time of my purchase were having more problems with the Shuttle, Epox, and Gigabyte boards that I could have chosen from.

Actually a lot of sites (Tom's, Anandtech, and Extremetech) have called it a half baked board, so my opinion is second-hand. Apparently the USB 2.0 was causing major conflicts, the RAID BIOS was poorly configured, etc.

As I remember, at the time the kT266A had just been launched. The MSI was actually at the top of my wish list, until I read the reviews. To be fair, the reviewers did mention that a BIOS update should be able to fix most hassles. All BIOS writers were just beginning to come to grips with the chipset, (except for Asus, go figure, they had a rock-solid board from the word go) but MSI had bunged in those extra features and the board would not load up Windows 2000 at all.

Anyway, what really matters is you've got a solid K7T266 PRO2 -RU, which is still a rarity. So that adds one more contender to Basslord's list, because it's really loaded with features.

Sang

 

[Basslord1124]

think I reached my decision anyways....

Actually what's interesting, at least in regards to MSI, is that one of the boards Midiman recommended that worked well with the Audiophile was an MSI...KG7-Lite I believe. It was one of my picks possibly at 1st but did the elimination process and it got crossed out. I think I'm going to stick with the Abit KR7 board...the non RAID version that is. Supports faster processors and ATA133. I feel $112-$113 is a good enough price as well. I will get an XP processor but probably one of the slower ones...maybe the 1600 I figure. Since that is out of the way my biggest concern now will be finding a good "quiet" cooling system since I have heard Athlon's are some "hot" processors.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Re: think I reached my decision anyways....

Actually what's interesting, at least in regards to MSI, is that one of the boards Midiman recommended that worked well with the Audiophile was an MSI...KG7-Lite I believe. It was one of my picks possibly at 1st but did the elimination process and it got crossed out. I think I'm going to stick with the Abit KR7 board...the non RAID version that is. Supports faster processors and ATA133. I feel $112-$113 is a good enough price as well. I will get an XP processor but probably one of the slower ones...maybe the 1600 I figure. Since that is out of the way my biggest concern now will be finding a good "quiet" cooling system since I have heard Athlon's are some "hot" processors.

Sounds like you are on the right track!