dull rhythm guitar

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organeyes11

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i can get delicious lead tones out of my amps but rhythm always sounds dull and quickly falls into the back ground. i have tried several different mic and amp techniques.

the gear i have
line 6 flextone 3
randall rx120
Parker PM20
Fender jazzmaster MIJ
and i use a MXR micro amp to give the extra bit of boost
 
i prob should have mentioned i can achieve the rhythm i want through the amps but once recorded it ends up the way i mentioned
 
Post some clips so I'll a point of reference. Otherwise, I have no clue what you are really talking about.
 
i prob should have mentioned i can achieve the rhythm i want through the amps but once recorded it ends up the way i mentioned

Unless you have your ears in the same place as your mic, you aren't going to hear what your mic hears.

I would suggest listening to a little recorded snippet and adjusting mic placement/amp EQ based on that, and rinse and repeat until happy.
 
i prob should have mentioned i can achieve the rhythm i want through the amps but once recorded it ends up the way i mentioned

Going out on a limb, are you scooping your midrange and playing with a LOT of gain?
 
generally, less is more with distortion/gain

go to youtube.com and look up multiple microphone techniques.


think of your signal chain in this order.

source does your guitar sound and play well without an amp

does your guitar sound good with the amp in the room that you are recording it in

place your ear up to the speaker, what you hear if what the microphone hears

does the sound you are recording sound correct with the other instruments it is playing side by side....if not...why not?

to much hi's to much lows?...........

it most styles of music, electric guitars are really about the midrange.

just my 2 cents
 
I should probably elaborate on my question for two reasons.

1.) Gain. Gain is fun. Used right, gain can sound awesome. However, gain is also in some ways a dynamic effect, squashing your attack and extending your sustain, so there's less audible difference between your pick attack and everything after that. For lead guitar, that's sometimes a good thing - effortless sustain and smooth attack can lead to a very vocal guitar sound. For a rhythm track, though, you want some of that impact, and a super gainy sound can sometimes turn a fast strummed part into an even wall of mush. This makes it more likely to slip into the background behind other instruments, even if it sounds "cool" on its own.

2.) midrange. An electric guitar is, exaggerating only slightly here, all midrange. Scooping the living fuck out of your mids and cranking your treble and bass may give you this evil "chunk" sound when you're playing alone in your room, but the problem here is what happens when you add in other instruments. Your boosted lows will have to compete with the bass guitar and kick drum, and your boosted highs will have to try to cut their way through the cymbols. In both instances, they'll fail. Meanwhile, with a strong mid cut, the one frequency band which is almost uncontested for the guitar (the mids) will just have nothing left in it.

Combine these two, and an evil, chunky metal rhythm tone can turn to white noise as soon as you add bass and drums. If you have no trouble with leads, and especially if you're playing through a notoriously over-gained amp like a Line6 or a Randall, then based on your "incredible dissapearing rhythm tone" my first instinct would be to check your gain and midrange knobs.
 
Good feedback above; here's my $0.02...

Adding distortion widens the spectral footprint of a guitar sound in the mix because of the extra harmonic content distortion it introduces, and if you are playing full chords with lots of distortion, then your footprint is very wide. The effect in the mixing process is that when the guitar is too loud, it overpowers everything else, and as you gradually lower the guitar channel volume, often it stays "in your face" until it suddenly disappears.

Turn down the gain when you are playing rhythm guitar.
 
While everything everyone said above is true there are other things to consider too. If all else fails try checking your mic preamp and AD/DA converters and what not.

I thought it would be best to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you have a good sound. Instead of talking down to you like some other people seem to be.
 
Thinking along the lines that it's best to fix things at the source acoustically than trying to tweak and turn knobs...

Have you ever tried using some hard surface, preferably organic like a piece of some hard wood under or near the amp?

I'm always seeing pretty nice wood beside the road that people are throwing away... like broken furniture for instance. I'd avoid pressboard but oak and maple sound great.
 
While everything everyone said above is true there are other things to consider too. If all else fails try checking your mic preamp and AD/DA converters and what not.

I thought it would be best to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you have a good sound. Instead of talking down to you like some other people seem to be.

Who's talking down to him? Just like with any other instrument, what sounds great standing alone may not work as well in the mix.
 
Who's talking down to him? Just like with any other instrument, what sounds great standing alone may not work as well in the mix.


Yes I understand but everyone just seemed to assume he is using way too much gain. Less gain is usually a good solution for guitar recording but I said "if all else fails" Also I was giving him the benefit of the doubt when he said he had a good tone. Anyways cheap preamps and bad ad/da converter from my experience give a "dull" like quality. Not trying to egg anyone's advice. I agree with them all but there are a hell of a lot more factors. Vague words like dull don't help though I think we have all established that.
 
Yes I understand but everyone just seemed to assume he is using way too much gain. Less gain is usually a good solution for guitar recording but I said "if all else fails" Also I was giving him the benefit of the doubt when he said he had a good tone. Anyways cheap preamps and bad ad/da converter from my experience give a "dull" like quality. Not trying to egg anyone's advice. I agree with them all but there are a hell of a lot more factors. Vague words like dull don't help though I think we have all established that.
Well, OK, but I still don't see how giving him advice in one area is more (or less) "talking down to him" than another. He said he gets "delicious lead tone ... but rhythm always sounds dull and quickly falls into the back ground"; that's what using too much distortion for rhythm guitar does; amp tone for lead/solo is very often not suitable for rhythm work. A lot of harmonic distortion in full chords (especially from thirds and notes harmonically father from the root) can really muddy up a mix, which is why a lot of metal rhythm players play open 5ths.

Anyway, I'm trying to help the guy out, not get over on him.
 
...but rhythm always sounds dull and quickly falls into the back ground"; that's what using too much distortion for rhythm guitar does
not necessarily

... A lot of harmonic distortion in full chords (especially from thirds and notes harmonically father from the root) can really muddy up a mix, which is why a lot of metal rhythm players play open 5ths.
these two are not related. amps will sound muddy because of IMD. amps with very low IMD can sound very clear even at significant levels of saturation or gain. if the guitar is set up correctly and is designed to handle the issues related scale imperfections, chording at significant levels of saturation can still sound very good.
 
Just a thought...one probably so simple as to render itself moot, but...I'm going to go out on limb here and blindly assume that this might actually garner a response.....when did you last change your strings?
 
Just a thought...one probably so simple as to render itself moot, but...I'm going to go out on limb here and blindly assume that this might actually garner a response.....when did you last change your strings?

If you look at your guitar and your first thought is "I wonder how long it's been since I had my last Tetanus shot" then it's time to change the strings. :D
 
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