drum tuning

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pandamonk

pandamonk

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Hi, for ages I've had my bass drum stuffed almost full with pillows etc. I've recently decided to take it all out apart from a small bit of acoustic foam. I've had it dampened for so long that now i ain't sure what sounds good. I think it sounds ok, but I've had it at couple of gigs and a few people have said that it don't sound so good. It's a 5 piece pearl export with 10-14" toms and 20" kick. I've never been taught drums, and therefore never been taught how to tune. The only sound i like from my kit is my snare, but that has duck tape with cotton wool to dampen the ring. I've read so many times that a well tuned kit doesn't need to be dampened at all. My toms sound disgusting, but if i try to tune them it just gets worse. The heads are quite old, but I hardly get to play my kit, and don't have the money to keep replacing heads. Here and here are pics of my kit(Don't slag the Staggs, they sounds amazing for the price. Better than getting ZBTs or anything in that price range). If you have a well tuned kit, and have a sound clip(s) of it being played(dry), could you post it. Also, is there anything you could recommend. I should really get some sound clips, but don't have the room to record, yet, or the money to get it recorded in a studio. Also, if I've missed anything important that you need to know, please tell me. Cheers, Pandamonk :D
 
pandamonk said:
Hi, for ages I've had my bass drum stuffed almost full with pillows etc. I've recently decided to take it all out apart from a small bit of acoustic foam. I've had it dampened for so long that now i ain't sure what sounds good. I think it sounds ok, but I've had it at couple of gigs and a few people have said that it don't sound so good. It's a 5 piece pearl export with 10-14" toms and 20" kick. I've never been taught drums, and therefore never been taught how to tune. The only sound i like from my kit is my snare, but that has duck tape with cotton wool to dampen the ring. I've read so many times that a well tuned kit doesn't need to be dampened at all. My toms sound disgusting, but if i try to tune them it just gets worse. The heads are quite old, but I hardly get to play my kit, and don't have the money to keep replacing heads. Here and here are pics of my kit(Don't slag the Staggs, they sounds amazing for the price. Better than getting ZBTs or anything in that price range). If you have a well tuned kit, and have a sound clip(s) of it being played(dry), could you post it. Also, is there anything you could recommend. I should really get some sound clips, but don't have the room to record, yet, or the money to get it recorded in a studio. Also, if I've missed anything important that you need to know, please tell me. Cheers, Pandamonk :D
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Put new heads on. If they are old, nothing you do will make them sound good. Sucks, but that's the way it is.
 
They kinda sucked when they were new too though, lol. I just need tuning advice. Like i know there is a natural resonance to each drum, but how do you tune to that/find it? I know on toms the top head should be the same as bottom, and on snare the top head should be tighter. But how tight should you tune them, and how do you find the best sound for the particular drum?
 
tuning toms...

first off, you need to google something called the "drum tuning bible." very useful, and available for free in a printable pdf. It's great.

But try this - it's sort of a simplified method, and it's what I do...

Take the bottom skin off of each tom, and just work with the top skin. Loosen it all the way, then finger tighten the lugs. Then, working in a star-pattern, tighten the lugs until the skin gives you a nice tone when struck. I usually go for the lowest possible tone, because i likey thuddy toms. But you'll figure out what you like.

Your lugs are going to be pretty close but definitely not perfect. This is the sorta hard bit. Put the drum in your lap, stick a finger on the middle of the skin and gently tap - with a drumstick - about an inch away from each lug. Tighten and loosen until they are all the same tension, and if you don't have perfect pitch you may want to have a piano or guitar on hand to get an actual pitch, not something random. When you hit your drum, it should sound pretty good. Not excellent, just pretty good.

Now put on your bottom skin, finger tighten and hit your drum again. Gonna sound terrible. Tighten each lug in a star-pattern, hit the drum and listen again. Might sound better. Keep tightening, hitting and listening until your drum sounds really good.

Then you're done. Continue with your other toms....

And good luck.

If you're gonna get fancy, you'll want your toms to descend in thirds or fourths, and you'll want a similar interval between all of the top and bottom heads. You'll definitely need a piano for this.

cheers,
saburo
 
I second the "get new heads first" approach. You will have one hell of a time even trying to get a nice tone/tune/sound out of a dead head. The thing is, there is no one "right" way or sound for drums. The "proper" way of tuning is fairly simple, but it takes a while to actually implement the finer points of tuning. The first thing to do is to wax the bearing edges. What I do next (after starting out with brand new heads) is to work with the top heads first. You want to finger tighten first, then go from one lug to the one right across from it (12 oclock to 6 oclock), then to the one next to 12 oclock and work your way around like that. At each lug, hit the head about 1" in and there should be a tone. You want that tone to be the same at each lug. Do the same with the bottom heads. For kick drums, I like the batter 1/8 to 1/4 turns past the wrinkley stage. The resonant head can be a little tighter. I completely agree that a good tuned kit needs no dampening, unless you're going for a specific sound.
Rory
 
Tuning Advice will be wasted on you, because you're not going to get those things to tune to anything but a "Shit-Tone".


Since you can't afford to replace heads all the time, allow me to suggest Remo Pinstripes. They will last ages. I've had the same set on my kit for several years, I don't play as much as I used to, in fect these days it's rare becauseI no longer have a place, but - when i was playing 4 hours a day, 7 days a week - I was using Pinstripes, and I got at least 2 years out of a set of them.

Also, you probably need to switch to a lighter stick, and learn to hit with a little less force. I don't know how thin those heads are, but dents like that are only made by hitting too hard. I haven't put dents in a head like that since I was about 8 or 9, so you need to loosen your grip (the stick should almost fall out of your hand) and hit the drum like you are cracking a whip.



Tim
 
pandamonk said:
They kinda sucked when they were new too though, lol. I just need tuning advice. Like i know there is a natural resonance to each drum, but how do you tune to that/find it? I know on toms the top head should be the same as bottom, and on snare the top head should be tighter. But how tight should you tune them, and how do you find the best sound for the particular drum?
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The bottom head on the snare should always be tighter than the top head by about a third. Same with toms, altough not as much. If you want the pitch to bend, tune the bottom head lower than the top.
 
Tim Brown said:
Tuning Advice will be wasted on you, because you're not going to get those things to tune to anything but a "Shit-Tone".


Since you can't afford to replace heads all the time, allow me to suggest Remo Pinstripes. They will last ages. I've had the same set on my kit for several years, I don't play as much as I used to, in fect these days it's rare becauseI no longer have a place, but - when i was playing 4 hours a day, 7 days a week - I was using Pinstripes, and I got at least 2 years out of a set of them.

Also, you probably need to switch to a lighter stick, and learn to hit with a little less force. I don't know how thin those heads are, but dents like that are only made by hitting too hard. I haven't put dents in a head like that since I was about 8 or 9, so you need to loosen your grip (the stick should almost fall out of your hand) and hit the drum like you are cracking a whip.



Tim
Click to expand...
There ain't really huge dents, there are small marks but the light reflected in such a way to make it look terrible(look at the snare, no dents...just splattered blood). I use light sticks and have a relatively loose grip. I do "hit the drum like" I'm "cracking a whip". These skins are around 2 years old, but over the last 6 months have hardly been played. They are quite shit skins, but I bought them 'cause i fancied black skins. I am hoping to be able to afford new heads soon, and that is really the reason why I asked. I don't wanna buy them and screw it up my tuning wrong. I apply most of the methods you have all suggested to my tuning, but still don't like the sound. Only thing I haven't done is tune to a piano.
 
PhilGood said:
The bottom head on the snare should always be tighter than the top head by about a third. Same with toms, altough not as much. If you want the pitch to bend, tune the bottom head lower than the top.
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Didn't know this. Hmm, anything I've read, which isn't that much has said that the top on snare should be higher, and toms should be same
 
panda,

Try reading information from this place http://www.evansdrumheads.com/EVATunning.aspx. It's the evans drumheads site and they have a lot of things here or should I say information on tuning drums. Also, a friend of mine told me about when you get a new head, place it on the shell and put the ring on it, but before you tighten down the bolts, you would want to press down the middle of the head to give it a little stretch. Just don't stand on the head, just press down on it so you can hear some of the sides crackle when the new head is being fitted. this sometimes works. Also, another neat tool is the drum torque. I use to have the Tama tension watch, which cost about $80, that worked wonders, but the drum torque is a lot easier. I usually tune the upper head and lower head at the same torque tension. Say something like top head with a setting of 10 and the bottom head at a 10. It just a matter of how you would want to ring and resonate.
 
Get LimeWire (something like kazaa) and search for drum lessons, "dave weckl drum tunning", i think it's the easiest way to learn tuning a drum. :p
 
What do you think of my drum tuning on the old kit i bought? Listen here. The snare doesn't sound as ringy, it was bad mic placement on my part.
 
I have allways Had Problems getting a Proper Tone out of My Toms when Tuneing them No Matter what I did..
I even had a Pro Come over to Tune My Drums but still My Drums had a Bad Ringing that Carried on Well After I hit the Drum and even the Drum Tuner Guy couldn"t get Rid of that Ringing Sound and useing PinStriped Heads Made the Problem Worse....

After a Long Time being Frustrated with the Ringing sound of My Drums I finally Found a solution which was to Put these Dampeners on the Drum Heads which allow for the Full Tone and Volume of the Tom to Come out while Dampening the Ringing sound, allmost Like adding Compression to the Sound...These Dampeners are Simply a Small Ring of Drum Skin that sits on the Outside edge of the Drum skin which simply Stopps the Ringing but doesn"t seem to affect the Sound in any other way.....

As For the Bass Drum I allways Have My Bass Drum tuned as Low as it can Possibly Go and Stuffed Full of Pillows which gives me a Very Deep Sound with Fast attack and no sustain but it seem hard to Mic the Bass Drum Sound si I get the Same effect that I hear when Playing.....

Cheers
 
Minion said:
I have allways Had Problems getting a Proper Tone out of My Toms when Tuneing them No Matter what I did..
I even had a Pro Come over to Tune My Drums but still My Drums had a Bad Ringing that Carried on Well After I hit the Drum and even the Drum Tuner Guy couldn"t get Rid of that Ringing Sound and useing PinStriped Heads Made the Problem Worse....

After a Long Time being Frustrated with the Ringing sound of My Drums I finally Found a solution which was to Put these Dampeners on the Drum Heads which allow for the Full Tone and Volume of the Tom to Come out while Dampening the Ringing sound, allmost Like adding Compression to the Sound...These Dampeners are Simply a Small Ring of Drum Skin that sits on the Outside edge of the Drum skin which simply Stopps the Ringing but doesn"t seem to affect the Sound in any other way.....

As For the Bass Drum I allways Have My Bass Drum tuned as Low as it can Possibly Go and Stuffed Full of Pillows which gives me a Very Deep Sound with Fast attack and no sustain but it seem hard to Mic the Bass Drum Sound si I get the Same effect that I hear when Playing.....

Cheers
Click to expand...


No! No! No! NO!

Grrrrrr....


And you wonder why it's hard to mic???

If you're having a problem with ringing, check your bearing edges to make sure they are sharp and do dings. If the drums are old, get better ones. Filling the bass drum with pillows is a really bad idea. No pro would do that. Good drums should never need more than a small peice of tape if nothing at all.

I refuse to muffle my toms. Period. Recently I started the same approach with the bass drum. Just a small shop towel rolled up and taped to the shell so it just touches the batter head. If I want a really good 'smack' out of the kick when recording, I pull a full gallon of paint on a towel in the middle of the shell, then put the reso head back on.

It sounds HUGE that way.
 
I never Said it was Hard To Mic and the Kit is Brand New and so are the Skins...(I just had a Hard Time getting the Sound I wanted out of the Bass, That is untill I filled it with Pillows)

The only Drum I Put a Pillow in is My Bass Drum (I Only recomended Muffling every Drum if you need a Very Quiet Drum Kit which I know Doesn"t sound very good but at least it is Quiet) But without the Pillow it sounds Like Crap....

But with the Ringing Sound I had absolutly No Choice but to Put those Thin Plastic Rings on My Toms as it was Literally Impossible to get Rid of the Ringing and I had Many Supposedly "Pro" drummers and even One Pro Drum Tuner Come over and None of them could Get Rid of the Ringing no Matter what they Did(He is the One who recomemded the Rings)...
The Rings seem to have absolutly no effect on the Tone of the Drums they Just Make it so the Drum doesn"t Ring on for 10 seconds after I hit it which sounds Worse than any Muffling does......

The Kit actually Sounds very Good when it is Mic"d Up accept for the Cymbals but I believe that is Because I am useing a Cheap Overhead Dynamic Mic instead of a Condencer Mic, Then again I have only been recording for a Couple weeks and Over Time I will Gather up enough Equipment and experience so I will eventually get the Sound I want....


ThanX

PS: Were would I find "Bearing edges" on my Kit, actually what are "Bearing Edges"???
 
The bearing edges are the part of the shell that touches the head. The rim.
 
typing Like This Is One Of The most Annoying Things in the World.
 
tourettes5139 said:
typing Like This Is One Of The most Annoying Things in the World.
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You think it is Annoying for you!! I"m the One that Is Forced to Type like this, If I could Stop I would but I have a Form is Dyslexia which as a effect causes me to pretty Much ignore most aspects of Proper Punctuation and Capitalization But it sure Beats Not being able to Spell or read at all....

Sorry if it Bothers you............ :o
 
It really depends on the sound you like. Some drummers want a "thud" for all of their drums. I prefer to coax as much sustain out of each drum as I can get. Actually I wish I could get my toms to ring a little longer. I even bought the RIMS system to mount them.

I would probably be happier with all maple shells, but just can't afford them right now. Plus I do not have any aspirations for my music career anymore. It's all just for fun and my own pleasure. I just love being able to get the drums to sound the way I like in my own project studio.
 
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