Drum replacement ....its stupid!

Jake_JW said:
I think it's more to do with commercial pressures and control from labels/management - the idea that to be competetive an album has to sound a certain way, rather than something under the control of bands.
I met a guy recently who drums in a band on Road Runner Records. They went into the studio with big(ish) name producer - the guy said 'this is how it's gonna sound' when they'd recorded the album and from what he said I think they felt that it was slightly out of their hands. I guess the label must have chosen the producer/mix engineer well for the bands sound because he likes the album, but I can imagine situations where the band isnt on board but has to go along with it anyway, because contracts.

In my opinion (from what I have seen etc) the further you go from a major label roster, the more likely you are to hear natural drums.
Click to expand...

That's the way many labels are. Listen to Fat Wreck stuff. Every album from Fat Wreck essentially sounds the same. Why? They use a small crew of engineers/producers for everything, and the bands aren't that different anyway. The label picks the people that make the record sound the way they want it to sound. The band has little to no say on anything. That's one of the many prices a band pays to play rock star. They'll give up literally everything to say that they're "signed".

From the musician's side of it, they probably don't care how the record is made. They're just happy to be making a record. The drummer might not even know what goes into "his" drum sound and he doesn't care anyway.

Some of us care because we care about recording. Some people don't care and only want the result. The result being fake, plastic, robotic drums.


IMO, YMMV.
 
Farview said:
Case in point: there are a group of people at work that listen to reggae. When some of the older stuff comes on, it drives me nuts because the timing is so loose and the vocals are out of tune.
Click to expand...

I listen to a lot of reggae and I used to agree - but I guess that's part of the charm of some old recordings that people spend so much time trying to mimic and I've gotten used to it. The mindset of big studios and producers at the moment seems to be 'I can do it, so I will'.

There are a few albums bucking the trend on excessive production/sample replacement at the moment (the Dead Weather's new single has been getting a lot of radio play here in the UK, for example) but mostly they seem to be bands doing their own production or who have a long working history with their producers and engineers.
 
I doubt it's the studios that are doing it because they can. It's the producers and/or bands that are insisting on it. Some smaller studios will do it because they can, in an attempt to prove that they are just as good as the big studios.

It's a lot of work that no one really wants to do.
 
There is an upside to this.....Maybe.

A new breed of drummers honing their chops will become tighter and more solid.
Not knowing any better, they will strive for this "perfect" quantized "new standard".
Since the beginning of recorded music, players have learned from and have strived for emulating what they hear on the records.

Foolish or not, that's one optimistic look.
 
Maybe, that could be a good thing. But it's not like real drummers of yesteryear were hacks.


What's really funny to me are the drummers that refuse to play to a click because they want to keep it real and groove naturally, then they sample replace and chop their tracks to a grid.
 
I can dig that.

Fortunately in terms of fully professional productions it seems quite limited to certain styles of music - Rock, Metal, Pop etc.
The more I've gotten into music production over the years, the less I have been listening to those genres (looking back). Perhaps thats a meaningful correlation. I will fully stop listening to music the day sample replacement becomes a 'standard' for Jazz recordings ;-)
 
That upside is real. A few years ago, I started noticing singers who sang with no vibrato and just hit and held a note, as if it were auto-tuned.

I assume the same thing will.happen with drummers
 
Farview said:
That upside is real. A few years ago, I started noticing singers who sang with no vibrato and just hit and held a note, as if it were auto-tuned.

I assume the same thing will.happen with drummers
Click to expand...
I believe so.

I mean, take guitar players for example. look at a pioneer like Hendix, and all the players that have honed their chops on his shoulders. Hendrix is still great, but there are some players that have surpassed him
He set the bar, and others took it farther.

We all learn from those that have come before us.
 
Haha! Oftentimes sad but true.

As much talent that exist today, there is even more garbage. I think the ratio is 10 to 1.

1 being the talent.
 
RFR said:
Haha! Oftentimes sad but true.
Click to expand...

If guys like Hendrix and Bonham are still held as the gold standard for rock guitar and drums, and they are, then we have done nothing worthwhile since them. And it's been almost 50 fucking years! Who's gonna remember this five finger donkey punch guy in 50 years? Probably no one. I don't even know his name right now, and I'm a drummer.
 
Greg_L said:
If guys like Hendrix and Bonham are still held as the gold standard for rock guitar and drums, and they are, then we have done nothing worthwhile since them. And it's been almost 50 fucking years! Who's gonna remember this five finger donkey punch guy in 50 years? Probably no one. I don't even know his name right now, and I'm a drummer.
Click to expand...

I was having some beers with Mitch Mitchell once. I finally got the nerve to ask him, "Why didnt you do anything after Jimi?"

His answer;
"Where do you go after you've been on top of the mountain?"
"Join a fucking Hendrix tribute band?"

He said the latter part with some distaste.
:D


Years later, needing some money. He succumbed. :(
 
When I am recording rock or new country I don't find anything wrong with using the tracked, unadulterated overheads with kick and snare (and sample augmentation) and replacing the toms with samples of my own drums. Being able to clean out 3 or 4 tracks that are just collecting noise really makes the drums bang. And, because the toms are samples (of the real drums recorded) you can have them pre slammed taking them out of the parallel bus so that just the snare and kick are providing the punch you want. I prefer to get to where I am going as quickly as possible without concerning myself with some aesthetic truth about drum tracking. I'll have hours of twiddling guitars to make a guit picker happy.

Now, if I am tracking a speed grass trio or a jazz quartet they get a pair of ribbons in the room and maybe a kick mic. No samples to be had. You chose your genre now live with it.:D
 
Greg_L said:
If guys like Hendrix and Bonham are still held as the gold standard for rock guitar and drums, and they are, then we have done nothing worthwhile since them. And it's been almost 50 fucking years! .
Click to expand...

The reality is that it's not just those two guys...it's a lot of what happened back then.
Not saying there is no good music today...but man, there's just so much more forgettable stuff these days.
 
miroslav said:
The reality is that it's not just those two guys...it's a lot of what happened back then.
Not saying there is no good music today...but man, there's just so much more forgettable stuff these days.
Click to expand...

Right, that's what I'm saying. Those two guys are just huge examples. And I'm not even being nostalgic. I don't care for Hendrix or Led Zeppelin. I don't lament the death of old rock and roll. I just don't see anything now that will come close to that kind of staying power.
 
Today we live in a sea of choices. Many artists and bands have their own large fan base and followers.

Back then, you have to remember there were only three tv stations and UHF. Radio was limited as well.

Also, with being forced to go to a commercial recording studio, and pay, it made things more exclusive.

No talent, no following, no appeal equals no deal.

Now, anyone can be a rockstar in their own mind.

Back then, the wheat was separated from the chaff......most times.
 
Last edited:
That's true. A band didn't record anything just to record because it was expensive and not for just anyone. A band only recorded when they had the chops, songs, and/or budget to do so. Now any idiot can record his junk and distribute it worldwide without ever making an actual sound or even putting pants on. Shit is way watered down now.
 
What younger musicians today fail to understand is that most of the musicians from the 60's, 70's & 80's (and before) were talented for a reason, they practiced and studied music. The reason that great songs were written and recorded is because of this. Today in the time of instant satisfaction nobody wants to practice and study. How many times in these forums do you read about, how do I auto tune the vocals, how can I play in time when I ca't play, how do I just play 1 verse and cut and paste it so I only have to play it once. Oh and I just bought XYZ piece of gear and I want it to work now, without reading the manual, and why has no one replied to my post it's been 5 mins and I want it to work now so TELL ME.

That is why there is so much untalented uninteresting shit out there now, while all the good talented stuff that is coming out is drowning in a sea of crap.

Alan.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top