drum recording help?

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Nathan1984

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I am sure that this question has been asked a million and one times on here, but I don't care, I'm asking it one more time. I just got access to an acoustic drum kit, up until now I was cheating(S2.0). I want to master recording a live kit though, I have been playing with it, but I am getting pretty pissed off by how it sounds when I hit record. I am after a real good death metal sound out of them. I am just not sure how I need to place the mic's and what effects I should use to process the tracks once recorded. I am focusing on just the drums right now, cymbals I can handle, but my main concern is getting a real decent kick and snare sound. What do you guys suggest?
 
Death metal typically uses quite a bit of almost synthetic sounds. To get these sounds on your own, will likely involve a whole lot more than you want to spend. I don't want to tell you you cant do it, but if you want immediate results, you will likely need to turn to drum replacement/enhancement/trigger type of program. Effects wont fix an improper tone to begin with. There is much involved to get there, even before you hit record.

If you cant spend months working at it, and don't wish to spend thousands, then get Steven Slate Trigger EX to start. It will sound backward to many purists here, but if you don't have the time or cash to make it happen 'right now', then use triggered samples.

If anyone wishes to give me crap for this advice, then send a donation, as well as your time to Nathan1984. Don't give me crap. Just sayin. :)
 
Yeah for death metal, you're gonna have to use triggers. I'm not a death metal kind of guy, but I am a drummer, and I'm pretty sure that none of what you hear on a death metal recording is miked acoustic drums. Real drums simply don't sound like that. Sure they might be really played by a real human or some subhuman type creature, and then edited to sound like a typewriter, but the sounds themselves most likely come from triggered samples with maybe a hint of the real sound blended in.

If you're trying to do it with straight drum miking, good luck. I think the main reason they use triggers is for consistency and power. When you play the drums really fast, your range of motion and the force available to whack a drum and make it sing is diminished. You simply can't hit hard enough to get the drums into their proper full sound. Most really fast death metal drummers barely move. They light tap with their fingertips barely holding the sticks. It's the only way you can play that fast. The triggers then pick up the signal off the drum heads and tell the controller to release a big pre-recorded drum sound. That's probably what you're gonna have to do, or use sample replacement after-the-fact..

The cymbals can be captured with standard overhead mic setups.
 
Might be helpful to post what you have to work with also.
 
I figured that much. I don't know if you remember how to set up kt drum trigger, I forgot how to get it all set up. I reformatted my harddrive and went back to winxp64. It doesn't show it as a vsti, I use sonar, I know you have to load it as a virtual instrument. I guess I will probably have to research it all over again. I figured that was what I would have to do. Who knows, I may cough up the cash and get trigger ex.
 
Naw man, KT is a VST effect. Just download it again, and get the dll file into your VSTPlugins folder. Pull it up as an insert, or whatever Sonar calls it.

Yeah, Trigger EX is only like $139 or something, but you need an Ilok too. That is another $40 or so.

If you ask real nice, I could be swayed into running your kick track through Trigger Plat, and get you some metal kicks/snares now. :)
 
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I would call myself a mostly metal guy, although I don't do a ton of recording it because my playing is pretty shit and i don't know a great drummer.. I don't really enjoy Death Metal because of the extremely "clicky" drums, but in terms of other metal (August Burns Red, As I lay dying, Darkest Hour, etc ect) I feel like they do a damn good job getting real sounds out of their kits without too much extra sampling. I'm sure there is some from time to time, but after reading some interviews with Jason Suecof (ABR, All that remains), I think he trys to get it at the source and those drums sound friggin amazing (check out this ABR song on youtube).

I'd like to hear other opinions about this too.. Do you think there are samples hidden in there someplace?
 
sixer2007 said:
I'd like to hear other opinions about this too.. Do you think there are samples hidden in there someplace?
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Absolutely. No doubt in my mind.

Don't forget, samples do not always mean 'fake'. You can sample your own drum sounds. It is the ability to isolate one sample (recording) of a snare, kick, whatever, and not have the bleed from other parts of the kit.

In music styles such as this, there is no room for 'room' sound of the drums. There just is not enough space for the mix to work, with a drum sound that has a big room sound. Each piece of the kit is isolated, so that it doesn't step upon the metal riffs. I really don't see it possible to do without triggers of some sort. At least I don't care to spend that much time trying to make it happen. lol!
 
Yeah I would think triggers/samples are a prerequisite for death metal drums. Without them, it just aint gonna sound right for the style.
 
How do you get KT Trigger to make midi notes if it isn't a midi in/out setup? I thought the last time I had it working, I thought I had to have it set as a vsti. Maybe I am mistaken, lead me on the path of triggering again please lol.
 
jimmys69 said:
In music styles such as this, there is no room for 'room' sound of the drums. There just is not enough space for the mix to work, with a drum sound that has a big room sound.
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Not trying to say you're wrong with this, but I listen to metal everyday, and I hear huge room sounds all the time. For instance, (although not the same style as what i posted before) The Black Album by Metallica is massive! And with huge guitars, etc. How was this accomplished without 'room'? There was obviously room in the mix for it...

I'd like to post one more example with what i think of great sounding metal drums surrounded by a massive room. Heart In Hand - Threefifteen - YouTube
What's your take on that?

And again, I mean no disrespect.
 
KT drum trigger just allows you to trigger from audio events, to send MIDI signals to a VSTi. You would need to have a VSTi active to play the notes you set KT to send to. Sounds like you have used it before. Figure it out bro. :)
 
sixer2007 said:
Not trying to say you're wrong with this, but I listen to metal everyday, and I hear huge room sounds all the time. For instance, (although not the same style as what i posted before) The Black Album by Metallica is massive! And with huge guitars, etc. How was this accomplished without 'room'? There was obviously room in the mix for it...

I'd like to post one more example with what i think of great sounding metal drums surrounded by a massive room. Heart In Hand - Threefifteen - YouTube
What's your take on that?

And again, I mean no disrespect.
Click to expand...

Well, you just equated 'Death Metal' with Metallica. Two completely different genres. I am about to eat a really yummy burrito. I will listen to your example in a few minutes. I'm not sure where you are going with this, but I am open to opinions,

Because I am the GOD that controls all that is METAL! And everything I say is the end of all days!

LMAO!

Dood, I am just giving some advice based on my own experience. Chill the hell out man...
 
Oh man! I wasn't trying to start anything here :o
And maybe I'm a bit out of touch with death metal because i don't really consume it.. I wasn't trying to say Metallica was death metal, but those are dense mixes with real nice roomy drums is all...
Sorry if I offended! Can't we be friends?! :D
 
I don't know, you got $20? lol!

It's all good man, Every genre has it's own particular approaches. The one presented by the OP, has it's own set of possibilities.There is no wrong or right. Just possibilities.
 
Yeah, I have used it before, I just need to figure out how to get kt drum trigger to have a midi in and out option again, that's why I thought that I had to set it up to a vsti as well, to enable midi i/o.
 
And I agree 100% that death metal uses a ton of samples. Take Born of Osiris for example. The kick drum in their first album has 0 body, all click. That would only be possible if the drummer were playing just a kick drum head made of hard plastic or something.

I guess I just don't want to believe that the metal I listen to uses samples after spending entire days just getting drum tones before ever pressing record. Not that it's "cheating", but it takes away from the human aspect after you find out a bit for me
 
Yeah, there you go, born of osiris is one of my big influences, that is kinda what I was going for anyway. I have a lot of good samples to get there, I will work on the kt drum trigger, if not that, cough up the money for slate trigger ex or drumagog or something.
 
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