Drum Overheads... On A Budget

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avieth

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I'm on a tight budget to get all the gear I need to record my band. I'll be recording everything track by track, but the drums present a huge problem. I've got an M-Audio Delta 66, only 4 inputs. I figure that's enough for the drums, two overheads, snare mic, and bass drum mic. I already have two dynamic microphones, they are pretty good. All I need now are some preamps, and a stereo pair of condensers to use as overheads.

I've decided on at least one M-Audio DMP3 preamp, which I'll run the overheads through, then two lower-end preamps for the kick and snare, which leaves me with about $100-$150 CAD for the mics. Any recomendations?
 
Fro those really on a budget the MSH-1 or MSH-2 mics are hard to beat. They save you money two ways on overheads. Not only are they cheap but they are so light you can put them at the end of a fully extended arm of an inexpensive boom mic stand without it sagging or tipping over. So you save by being able to use cheaper mic stands.

So a search here and you will hear a lot about them.
 
I second the MSH mics...you wont find a better mic at even twice the price...
 
It took me a while to find some information on these MSH mics. I found the Naiant Studio page and took a look at the store. Those prices are unreal. Is there any other place I can get them? I was hoping to find them at a local store, I don't want to have them shipped over the border, unless that is the only way.

+ My studio isn't treated, and I'm not too proud of the acoustics, so I'm thinking the MSH-2. Good idea?
 
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you have to buy the mics direct from naiant. however, they are tiny and shipping shouldn't be that bad. also they don't cost enough to carry a significant duty tax. the msh-2 is an omni so the room plays a big part in the sound. the msh-1 comes in a cardioid model; may be better for your purposes.
 
The MSH-1K doesn't come in a stereo pair.. I'll probably get one or two of them though, since it's such a bargain. Thanks for letting me in on these ;)
 
I'm not sure how much they run for online, but the Studio Project C4's are great SD mics. I bought mine almost 2 years ago for $400....they should have dropped in price, especially if they're used.

Also, if you need anymore dynamic mics or just anything in particular, please check out Orange County Speaker's Shop.

Those guys have insane deals on just about everything they carry. You'll be shocked at all the different things they have (mics, cables, stands, speakers, etc). Let me know what you think of that place.

- Mat
 
I like the MSH mics... however on high SPL sources like drums they can break up. I tried the MSH1 for a while as a drum OH and it simply didn't handle the high SPL well. For a jazz combo I recorded where the drums were more subdued, they worked peachy.
 
I'll second that but I've got to say that my drummer is a gorrilla too. An alternative...MXL 603's. I like 'em.
 
punkin said:
I'll second that but I've got to say that my drummer is a gorrilla too. An alternative...MXL 603's. I like 'em.
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These are easy to come by on eBay, which I would prefer to buying from Naiant. I could get a pair of MXL 603's for $120 CAD, so I think I'll go with that. Good idea?
 
punkin said:
I'll second that but I've got to say that my drummer is a gorrilla too. An alternative...MXL 603's. I like 'em.
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I was just given a pair by Supercreep...tried them today. They work really sweet.
 
Joe Meek JM27 is pretty good. I picked up a matched pair on Ebay, with shock mounts, wind screens, and stereo bar, for less than $100 shipped. They are cardioid, which should help with a less than ideal room.
 
I have tried a number of mics mentioned here....I have owned JM27's, I currently own a pair of russian MK-012's, I have used the 603's. If I had to pick a pair of mics, the MK-012's would get my vote, but if price was an issue, the MSH's would take the cake every time. I actually use the MSH mics quite often over the mk-012's.
 
avieth said:
I'm on a tight budget to get all the gear I need to record my band. I'll be recording everything track by track, but the drums present a huge problem. I've got an M-Audio Delta 66, only 4 inputs. I figure that's enough for the drums, two overheads, snare mic, and bass drum mic. I already have two dynamic microphones, they are pretty good. All I need now are some preamps, and a stereo pair of condensers to use as overheads.

I've decided on at least one M-Audio DMP3 preamp, which I'll run the overheads through, then two lower-end preamps for the kick and snare, which leaves me with about $100-$150 CAD for the mics. Any recomendations?
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Buy the DMP3 used. Save an extra $50. Scrape up an extra $20 or $30 on top of that and buy two Oktava MK-012 mics. Don't skimp on the overheads. They are the most important mics in your kit.

Here are some used MK-012s:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Oktava-MK-012-0...ryZ41466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.musicgoround.com/gear/inventorydetails.asp?id=524748

http://www.musicgoround.com/gear/inventorydetails.asp?id=550126

http://cgi.ebay.com/MC-MK-012-Octivia-Small-Condenser-with-mount_W0QQitemZ110061862658QQcmdZViewItem

You might be able to beat the price slightly.
 
avieth said:
The MSH-1K doesn't come in a stereo pair.. I'll probably get one or two of them though, since it's such a bargain. Thanks for letting me in on these ;)
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There's a reason for that. According to their designer, they really aren't suitable for use as a stereo pair. Wait for MsHilarious to chime in to tell you why.

You do not want to use those as overheads.... You might use them as a snare mic or something, but not for overheads.
 
in an untreated room where there are lots of ringy resonances (think concrete, cinder block or bare sheetrock), i would avoid the MXL 603's. their high-end frequency rise just doesn't fare well with a bad room. they also have a problem handling/dealing with cheap (and cheap sounding) cymbals. they'll really bring out the gnarly in some nasty brass. :p

that said, on a budget I rather like the MXL V67. they tend to bring out the "woodiness" in the drums and as they don't have that high-end bump that a lot of the china-originated mics have, they don't suffer from the same problems with cymbals. pleasantly surprised here.

in the past, i've liked the studio projects B1 on overhead too. it does a rather capable job--nothing especially "wow" about it, but nothing really to complain about either.

i haven't used the MSH mics, but obviously lots of folks around here love em. :D


cheers,
wade
 
Don't Buy Anything!

avieth said:
I'm on a tight budget to get all the gear I need to record my band. I'll be recording everything track by track, but the drums present a huge problem. I've got an M-Audio Delta 66, only 4 inputs. I figure that's enough for the drums, two overheads, snare mic, and bass drum mic.
The following comment assumes that you are not very experienced at recording and plan to use your tracks for a CD or some media intended for distribution (i.e. the tracks gotta sound very good).

I highly suggest that you don't buy anything. Rather, find a local musician or sound engineer with their own gear. Offer them some money to help you out by renting mics and pres and a few hours of their time. As part of the agreement have that person come to your place and set-up the mics and get the session started. This will be a great learning experience for you, well worth the money.

Compared to buying some cheap gear I think this would be a better option because the most important elements of capturing a sound well (in order of importance) are quality of the sound source (player, instrument, room), mic placement, gain staging, and quality of the gear. By highering someone with experience you have all your basis covered. If you buy your own stuff (again, assume you have little recording experience), your recording may not sound as good. On the up side, you'll have stuff you can use even after the session is over.

Unless you are playing super heavy metal, I also recommend using a 3-mic Glynn johns technique. With three great mics and pres and the right set-up you will get a superior sound. I have recorded my own bands on my own and higher a friend to help with gear and placement (my gear at the time was all low end). While I learned a lot from using my own gear, the results from my friends help sounded way better and now I know a lot more about getting good sounds myself. I paid him $200 for a few hours of help and use of some gear for three days.

I assumed you have little recording experience for no particular reason. No offence intended.
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I really don't have much experience, but I'm not an idiot. I've recorded a few tracks where the only real instrument is a guitar, the rest softsynths and a drum machine, and I was pretty happy with it. But more importantly, I learned a lot.

I'm planning on producing my own EP with my band. We don't want to spend thousands for studio sessions. Some friends of mine in another band spent $1000 for a three song demo and the mix was shit. I believe I can do better. If I get a few good condensers and a couple pres I'm all set to record it, track-by-track.

I've been reading up on recording for the past year, but how can I get some experience if I don't have any gear to use?
 
avieth said:
how can I get some experience if I don't have any gear to use?
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Very good point. I started off (and to an extent still use) using a pair of really rubbish condenser's made my some chinese company called "Takstar" - the name says it all! They cost only $40 for the pair (if that). I have made decent recordings with them. People often say upon hearing my recordings "wow - I like the drum sound. Most home recordings have a really crappy drum sound. Well done"

I leared most of my techniques by reading, and trial and error. Go with what you feel is right. I take great satisfaction in doing my own recordings with my band - it's a fun experience.

At the end of the day if it sounds good, who gives two hoots how you did it? Experiment until you achieve what you want. Don't expect to produce stunning recordings straight off the bat.

I wish you the best of luck, and look forward to hearing your recordings!
 
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