Drum Miking, eq,compression

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ChuckU

ChuckU

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Please bear with me on this one. I'm sure this forum has seen this question a thousand times, but my search did not answer all my questions. They are:

1. Do I want to EQ or compress ANYTHING while tracking?
2. Separate mic/track for hihat or will bleed do it?

My setup (which may help answer some further questions)
Please feel free to comment on mic placement and choices:

Kick - Shure Beta 52 (right on the beater 2" from inside head)
Snare - Shure SM-57(2" from rim & 2"above head angled toward center)
Floor Tom - Sennheiser 421 (Same as snare)
Rack toms(2) - ShureAX1, Peavey SM58 clone (sorry, it's all I have and it sounds good to me)(Ditto for placement)
Overheads - 2 Behringer ECM-8000's (6 feet apart & 18" above cymbals)

I'm running the mics to a pair of Mackie 1202's which give me 8 pre's, but I'm using the inserts thus bypassing the mixer's eq section.

I then run the inserts to a Delta -1010 into Sonar where I've been setting my EQ's. Is this optimal? Also what plugins other than EQ should I use and where (Compressors, gates, reverbs, delays)?
Thanks
 
Ahhhhhh EQ vs. Mic placement :)


I always find it best to be moving the microphones around the drum kit for a few hours to get that close to perfect sound without EQ than to get an okay sound with the microphones and try to fix the problem with EQ. I think that you will find that using no EQ while tracking will make for more natural tones when the mixing stage comes around.

As for compression I usually have one general rule, if the drummer is very consistent and is hitting the same part of the skin at the same level throughout his playing I don’t see the need to add *too much* compression during tracking, but, if the drummer is all over the place and not consistent in the strength of his hits then it would be a good idea to add compression at tracking to keep all of the levels at one relative volume.

If this mic placement sounds good to you and if the sound of the drums fits the song then use away but also don’t be afraid to move mics in weird positions or switch some mics with others. Also experiment with room micing techniques not all mics have to be 2 to 10 inches from the kit. I would personally use a seperate mic for the hi hats but thats just me :)

Saunavation Audio Productions
 
I also think it's more usefull to put more time in placing the mics correct than just put them there and think you can fix all sound problems in the mix.

I usually use the EQ only after recording. For compression, you may add a little to add confidence to the drummer, but also there the corrections have to be done after recording.

If you have the extra mic and extra channel, defintely mic the hihat!!
 
Use the Gates if you want to isolate the individual drum mics a little more. Set it so you just hear that drum being struck and not the others. Leave the overheads ungated.

For the Phil Collins/Power Station big drum sound you can add a Reverb that feeds a Gate. Set the gate so you have a big reverb tail that cuts off abruptly.

Another trick I have read about but not tried is to have the entire mix uncompressed then you bounce it to some additional tracks with very heavy compression. Mix the compressed version with the regular version for a bigger sound.
 
Good call TexRoadkill............

That technique is great, I ALWAYS group the drums to 4 mono faders on the console (1 L and 2 R uncompressed drum sub mix AND 3 L and 4 R compressed drum sub mix) On faders 3 and 4 I SQUASH the mix by inserting a pair of 1176's or LA-4's then balance the compressed mix with the uncompressed mix.
Of course this is at the studio not my home setup, I wish I had a pair of 1176's :)

I would strongly suggest you try it, any compressor will work wonders but the trick I find is to really overkill the compression (i.e. brick wall at -2 db with a threshold of -30 db. This works wonders for Hardcore, Thrash core type bands (I wouldn't use it for any style)

But then again that’s just my sound and style.......

Saunavation Audio Productions.......
 
Pardon my ignorance...

1176? LA-4? I assume these are compressor models. Can I make due with (oh please don't kill me) a Nanocompressor (I was thinking about an RNC) and my software compressors after the fact? Also, when you say overkill the compression, do you want pumping and breathing?

My drummer is very consistent and very dynamics oriented. If the snare is louder in one section than another it's because he's a musician and is playng what is best for the song. I assume I would not go overboard with him on the comp.

It looks like no EQ on tracking is the rule of thumb here so I guess I'm ok using the Mackie inserts.
I'm definitely going to play with mic placement, too.

You all seem to be speaking from experience. This board is great. Thanks for the info everyone. Keep it coming.
 
You got a really good drummer? Don't comp, gate or EQ while tracking. Any of these can be down when mixing if needed.

You got a good sounding room? Throw up a room mic somewhere that sounds good.

And whoever said it's best to spend a few hours getting the sound right rather than trying to EQ afterwards, AMEN Brutha! If you want sounds worth keeping, take the time to get the tracking done right.
-kent
 
I absolutely MUST play devil's advocate, but not just for the sake of doing so. I AM A FAN OF COMPRESSION!! I stand proudly with that title.

I have a lot to say...!

While I know many of you have made some very valid points, most of the gripes appear to regard OVERUSE of compression. Too often, tunes aimed at the radio receive tremendous spank (compression), as you said to beat or compete with everyone elses product. It CAN be done well, but it can also choke the life out of a tune. No argument there. :D

Okay, someone was saying that digital media has killed dynamics. Let's have a look at that, shall we? The dynamic range on a CD, which these days is far from optimal, is easily half again greater than the media of days past (cassette, vinyl). How does having MORE dynamic range cause the LOSS of dynamics, again? I'm not following that logic.

Now, my biggest question to some of you spank-haters: How can you adequately record vocals without compression??? The human voice is easily one of the most dynamic instruments in the world, and that is a wonderful thing. But to make it show up stay up in a mix, you either ride the faders endlessly, or you let a nice compressor do the work. How can you NOT?? (same goes for bass guitar, tho perhaps not as strongly.)

Now I must make the all-important point here: A compressor is not an effect which you really want to be able to HEAR in most cases. The best compression is compression you're really not aware of when listening. If your compressing to the point where it's detrimental to the sound, you're compressing way too much (in most cases).

Compressors are one of the toughest effects to learn, imho, because you don't 'hear' it like you do say flange or verb. You have to understand what it's doing, and you have to understand what you want to do. So grab a book or two, find the compressor section, and read up. Then play around. Compress all kinds of sounds and see how spank effects them. Most importantly, see how it effects a sound WITHIN A MIX.

Blah blah blah ... That was, indeed, a rant. I half-way apologize.

One more bit ... If at all possible NEVER EVER track with verb. Never. Never ever. Add it in the mix. ;)
 
I'm tracking some drums Thursday night...

I will definitely keep many of these suggestions in mind....

My first multitrack live drum tracking was 2 1/2 weeks ago and I've been playing around with the mix. My biggest complaint is the lack of definition from my snare. I eq'd the hell out of it (after the fact), but there's still not enough point to it (SM-57 thru Mackie 1202) . Will work on mic placement. I also need more high end on the kick. The bottom is very satisfactory however (Beta-52). I boosted the hell out of the high end in the mix to get it better defined. Again, I will play with mic placement. I'm wondering if I should do anything with the low cut button on the Mackie. I'm using the inserts, so I don't even know if this is in the signal chain (RTFM).

TexRoadkill: I gated the snare and added reverb in the mix. Good call. Not the right sound for the song, but that one's a keeper. Thanks.

Gabriel: I learned my lesson about tracking with certain effects two years ago when I recorded my own CD on my Roland VS-880. I transferred each track of 11 songs to Pro tools (2 at a time) and got scolded by the engineer about the guitar tracks I had with chorus already on them. And compression. (yes, pumping and breathing. I should have retracked).
Thanks everybody. I'll report on my session later this week. :)
 
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