Drum instruction question...

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RAMI

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OK, teachers and drummers...I'd like your opinions on this.

Let's say I have student who can do a certain exercise or rudiment at a certain speed: Let's say a Paradiddle at 100bpm. He can do them smoothly and evenly at that speed, but he can only last about 20 seconds. If I want him to do it for a minute (which is what I like to use before I increase the speed), I have to bring the speed down to about 94bpm's.

So, if you had the choice between having him pratice at 100bpm and trying to add a few seonds each time (he can still do for a reasonable amount of time, about 20 seconds, before it starts falling apart)...and having him pratice at 94bpm for a minute and then bringing it up to 95 or 96bpm's, which would you do?

Am I hindering his progress by slowing it down, he can do it faster but not for as long??? And I like using a minute as a benchmark to increase the speed.
 
No - I'd have him do it even longer so that he/she isn't running up against muscle fatigue while learning muscle memory.

Speed will increase as less force is required to flow through the motions.

Very lucky student, very good teacher.
 
Not being a drummer, I can only speak from other things that are repetitious, but I agree with Casey. Maybe have them do it for a full minute at the speed they can do it properly, and increase the time a bit, then work on some speed for a shorter time, but still with proper technique. I think the technical aspect is way more important at this point, for the person in your example.
 
Right. Good points, guys. It is the way I do it. I will do both sometimes, but usually it's about keeping it steady for a longer time. It was a hypothetical question, but something I was thinking about earlier. Thanx for the input.
 
I agree with the above. You also might consider getting the student to play at even slower speeds for longer - if you haven't already.

Some might say it's overkill, but playing @ 80 bpm for FIVE minutes would significantly increase muscle memory. Besides, an average song is typically 3 minutes or more. Even though you wouldn't necessarily be playing a paradiddle the whole song (unless your playing "Peggy Sue") you still would be playing for that long.

Would you train for a 26 mile marathon by running as fast as you can for a few miles until you run out of juice? No, you would build up to 26 miles regardless of speed.
 
Yeah, good analogies. Just like, when you're training, you don't increase the weight until you can do a certain amount of reps.

The only reason I thought it might have been good to use the other approach is because when we sit down and do rudiments, he may be doing a paradiddle for a minute, but he's also doing about 12 other rudiments with no break in between. So he's definitely getting a work out either way.

But I'll stick to the way I've always done it, like you all suggest.
 
go longer.

seems to apply to alot of things in life eh?

slower and longer..

heh. ok i'm done.
 
Do it slower but make sure he hits every note bang on the beat, bring it back down to 60 bpm (Doing quaters aswell!!!!) this may sound stupid but that is harder to feel the beat at 60 bpm than it is at 100. then build it up by 10 bpm. Also i reccommend this, http://www.amazon.com/OnboardResear...8677640-2292955?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments , its amazing, truely the best practising method i have had a go at, my teacher has one and it can do pretty much anything. Also its probably that after 20 seconds of doing a paradiddle when he gets to the double on his left hand he probably cant do them both so tell him to whack this shit out of a pillow at home with just his left hand for as long as he can do with out tensing up then that will build up his muscle. Also doing the paradiddle at a slower tempo will build up not only timing but muscle memory which is pretty key for him to do it for ages at a higher tempo, phewww time to go out now!
 
breeeeza said:
Do it slower but make sure he hits every note bang on the beat, bring it back down to 60 bpm (Doing quaters aswell!!!!) this may sound stupid but that is harder to feel the beat at 60 bpm than it is at 100. then build it up by 10 bpm. Also i reccommend this, http://www.amazon.com/OnboardResear...8677640-2292955?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments , its amazing, truely the best practising method i have had a go at, my teacher has one and it can do pretty much anything. Also its probably that after 20 seconds of doing a paradiddle when he gets to the double on his left hand he probably cant do them both so tell him to whack this shit out of a pillow at home with just his left hand for as long as he can do with out tensing up then that will build up his muscle. Also doing the paradiddle at a slower tempo will build up not only timing but muscle memory which is pretty key for him to do it for ages at a higher tempo, phewww time to go out now!
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Awesome post, BREEEEEZA. Thanx for the link, too. I love your advice of actually doing it way slower. You're right, there are many beats, rudiments and exercises that are easier to do with a bit of speed and momentum.
 
RAMI said:
Let's say I have student who can do a certain exercise or rudiment at a certain speed: Let's say a Paradiddle at 100bpm. He can do them smoothly and evenly at that speed, but he can only last about 20 seconds...
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so are you trying to say that you can't do Paradiddles at 100bpm? :p
 
He should be able to do it smoothly while answering questions from you. Ask him whats his first middle last name. Whats his address what is his phone number.

Once the reflex gets into him then its just a matter of muscle conditioning. But first you need to build a complex reflex.
 
zed32 said:
so are you trying to say that you can't do Paradiddles at 100bpm? :p
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yeah, this is all about me. In fact, I was using this phony question to see if anyone would tell me what a paradiddle IS??? :D
 
Lol at you guys and your fancy drum terminologies. Rudiments? Paradiddles? Thats crazy talk. Just bang on em. :p
 
also, if your feeling like a bastard, dont let him tap his foot whilst doing the really slow tempos and make him reallly feeeeel the beat inside him/her (oops) but dont bother unless he has been playing for a while and has allready done paradiddles alot first do its probably not a good idea at this stage! :D
 
RAMI said:
yeah, this is all about me. In fact, I was using this phony question to see if anyone would tell me what a paradiddle IS??? :D
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That's like 2 diddles, man... :D
 
I'd say the fact that you're so thoughtful about the issue is more important than exactly which way of learning it you emphasize... because no doubt you know your student well enough to have reasonable expectations of them. That said, I see a lot of value in approaching things from different angles at the same time with a student... daily slow practice focusing on accuracy and finesse over a longer timeframe as well as practicing it rapidly for a shorter time. Each way of working has its value. For instance with scale practice on the gtr there's a lot of value in doing speed bursts as well as extended consistent tempo scale practice. Short bits of fast playing can be very motivating.

I would definitely agree though that emphasizing 'slow and accurate' is the most important since speed kind of comes on its own if everything else is there.

About talking to students while they play... I play exercises with students during the first few minutes of most lessons and I talk to them a little bit while playing. I agree that's a good way to reinforce knowing exercises well. Also a good way to lighten it up if they're tense... if you're relaxed, they'll relax. Wouldn't ask them their middle name though... maybe comment on their great tone... remind them that this is a warmup not a test... or ask them to adjust something with their hand positions as they play... anything that takes concentration on the student's part just to listen and respond.
 
Timothy Lawler said:
I'd say the fact that you're so thoughtful about the issue is more important than exactly which way of learning it you emphasize... because no doubt you know your student well enough to have reasonable expectations of them. That said, I see a lot of value in approaching things from different angles at the same time with a student... daily slow practice focusing on accuracy and finesse over a longer timeframe as well as practicing it rapidly for a shorter time. Each way of working has its value. For instance with scale practice on the gtr there's a lot of value in doing speed bursts as well as extended consistent tempo scale practice. Short bits of fast playing can be very motivating.

I would definitely agree though that emphasizing 'slow and accurate' is the most important since speed kind of comes on its own if everything else is there.

About talking to students while they play... I play exercises with students during the first few minutes of most lessons and I talk to them a little bit while playing. I agree that's a good way to reinforce knowing exercises well. Also a good way to lighten it up if they're tense... if you're relaxed, they'll relax. Wouldn't ask them their middle name though... maybe comment on their great tone... remind them that this is a warmup not a test... or ask them to adjust something with their hand positions as they play... anything that takes concentration on the student's part just to listen and respond.
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Absolutely. Why not mix it up. Another reason to let them go sometimes, this apllies more to young students, is because I try to make it fun for them. I'll give them a pat on the back even if they did't do something perfectly, and just that if they slowed it down and got such-and-such part a little better, it would be perfect, etc...
So, I think it's good to mix up the technical stuff with stuff that they'll find "cool". Never letting them do something "fast" could lead to frustraion and boredom. I sometimes have to remember that not everyone's like me (thank god). I was perfectly happy playing on a practice pad for 6 months before my teacher taught me anything on the kit. And I'd practice for hours on end because I didn't see it as practice, it was the only time I felt totally right doing something, like I was spposed to be a drummer and get good at it.

Kids these days start getting frustrated when they can't do a 12 minutes killer drum solo despite the fact that they've been playing a month and never pratice. I'm getting OOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLDDDDDDDDDDDD. :eek:
 
RAMI said:
And I'd practice for hours on end because I didn't see it as practice, it was the only time I felt totally right doing something, like I was spposed to be a drummer and get good at it.
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Dude- that is totally how it was for me too, when I first started out! Wish I had a teacher around like you back then. -Rez
 
Rami, do your students get to play whole songs, or even some of the main portions of the songs they like? (once they have some good basics down...)
You know, use a song as the click, and play along?

More just a curiousity than anything...
 
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