drum floor

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FALKEN

FALKEN

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I have read many times the suggestion of having wood panels to put on the floor for recording drums. would there be any benefit to lifting the drumset off the ground, like a riser? or would it be best to just lay some wood flat down?
 
Try it both ways. Use the one that sounds the best. :)
 
supposedly putting wood sounds better than carpet. I don't want to try it both ways because I only want to build one floor.
 
Hey Faulkin, there's no reason to build a platform unless you are trying to decouple the drums from an existing wood floor(with joists) for reducing structural transmission of impact sound. Even if you did, it would need to be massive, and floated on neoprene or fiberglass isolators. A sandfilled wood assembly might work, although then you must consider the weight on the existing floor assembly. Without the mass, you are simply builing a large resonant drum, which a wood structural floor already is. If your existing floor is concrete, stick with it. The only reason for wood floors as a finish, or using panels, is wood absorbs at some frequencies to a certain extent, but mostly reflects. It looks nice too. But linoleum will reflect just as good. However, reducing comb filtering by elimating reflections from the floor should be what you are after. A small rug will help with that.
Mic placement is critical, and monitoring from an isolated control room with early reflection control and a time delay gap larger than the studio, will allow you to hear comb filtering, which is EXACTLY what engineers want to hear. That way they know what is being recorded besides the music.

Here is an experiment to illustrate comb filtering. Have someone hold a mic while you listen on the monitors in another room or headphones. Have them talk while walking towards a wall. As they approach the wall, listen to what happens.

There was a time when bands recorded in large studios where the ambience of the room was included in the overall sound of the band. That is where large expanses of wood floor helped with the reverb in the room. In small rooms, the best you can do is absorb these reflections to reduce boominess, and add fx to taste by electronics or plugins.
fitZ
 
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I built a 4x6 platform/riser using scrap lumber and 1/2" plywood. I wanted a more "livelier" drum sound and I've noticed, at least so far, that I get a little more crack from the snare and a little brighter sound.
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
reducing comb filtering by elimating reflections from the floor should be what you are after. A small rug will help with that.

I'm sorry but this is the opposite of what I've always heard to be true, both with my ears and from other people.

RICK FITZPATRICK said:
In small rooms, the best you can do is absorb these reflections to reduce boominess, and add fx to taste by electronics or plugins.

I hope to god this is not true. I have been spending hours and weeks and $$ buildling this f****** acoustic treatment and if what I end up with is that I *HAVE TO* add FX by ELECTRONICS or PLUGINS I am going to be F***** pissed off.
 
FALKEN said:
I have read many times the suggestion of having wood panels to put on the floor for recording drums. would there be any benefit to lifting the drumset off the ground, like a riser? or would it be best to just lay some wood flat down?

falken-i built one for my studio/practice areas....not so much for sound as just being able to move my kit around a bit if needed...(basically a 8'x7' deck on casters).
 
I hope to god this is not true. I have been spending hours and weeks and $$ buildling this f****** acoustic treatment and if what I end up with is that I *HAVE TO* add FX by ELECTRONICS or PLUGINS I am going to be F***** pissed off.
You didn't tell me that, you also haven't told me what the room is for, what the floor is made of, how big the room is, and what your RT-60 is. I was under the impression this was a very small room for or booth for drums. Excuse me, but if this is already treated for a certain RT-60, then so be it. I was trying to enlighten you to comb filtering, thats all. Especially when it comes to multiple mics and floor/wall/ceiling reflections. Well, all I can say is let your ears be the judge. The fact is, if you have a large room, and it is treated well, wall and ceiling reflections should not be a problem. It is the floor I was refering to.
What I don't understand is what your floor is made of. If it is a concrete floor, you already have a reflective surface. :rolleyes: If it is a wood structure with a wood finish floor, what do you need wood panels for? If you have transmission problems, then a platform may help, IF it is massive. If this is a large room with lots of ambience, yet has appropiate low frequency absorption, and you want it to sound bright, fine. Do what you want. If it is a small room, then you will have boominess unless its treated. You never said it was. Since it is....cool. IF you have problems with comb filtering from the floor, use a damn rug. Thats all I was saying.,

BTW, what exactly is the problem? Do your drums sound bad in the room as it is, or what?
 
ok. the room:

the room has tile floors. since I am renting the house, I have put rugs down so that the drums do not ruin the tile. the room opens on two opposite sides into a dining room and the hall, so it is wide open. the entire house is tile.

why a drum floor:

because the best sounding drum recordings I have ever made have had wood floors.

why the acoustic treatment:

to tame reflections and ambience....most of what I have read says that reflections off of the floor are good and reflections off of the ceiling are bad. unfortunately, I probably won't be hanging any ceiling treatment. what I am almost done building is 4 - 15" diameter tube traps, 4 hinged floor gobos (8 panels), 4 panels strung up on mic stands, and 3 wall panels (which could go on the ceiling). this does not include what I built for my control room.

I figured since I am in the mood to build shit, why not build a small floor if it will improve the recorded drum sound? I think also some wooden amp risers out of the scraps.
 
If your in the mood to build stuff then why not build some clouds to hang over the set? The carpet on the floor, in addition to all the other treatments, is going to pull some sparkle out of the set. I bet it would sound pretty good sitting on the tile, but if you want to protect the tile, then try laying down a sheet or two of plywood and see how you think that sounds. I'm sure it would brighten it up compared to the carpet.
 
the room has tile floors. since I am renting the house, I have put rugs down so that the drums do not ruin the tile.
Why didn't you say you had a tile floor that you were protecting with rugs on it in the first place? What this says is you don't like the sound with the rugs, correct? Now I undertand what you are trying to do. Funny how one little piece of information turns things inside out :D


As Vspaceboy says, laying a sheet or two of plywood down will protect the floor. What it doesn't tell you, is even though it is reflective, compared to tile, it will also provide..... :eek: ABSORPTION!! :) Look, tile is an ultimate reflective surface. And since this is a rental, I assume this is LINOLEUM tile, no? Which may or may not be over concrete. No matter, it is a highly reflective surface, ceramic tile being the highest, because of it's stiffness. All woods absorb to a degree, soft woods more so than hardwoods. Plywood will absorb more than Oak plank flooring. Therefore, it will reflect less than hardwood, and MUCH less than tile. How much less is clearly audible, which is why Reverb rooms are lined with ceramic tile, and good recording live rooms have wood floors, because the absorption/reflection ratio PROVIDED with wood creates a somwhat desirable RT-60 for recording instruments. HOWEVER, the caveat is, usually, in good live rooms with wood floors, they have a very high ceiling, with patchwork absorption and/or diffusers to diffuse specular reflection from the ceiling. Since this is a home, and I assume you have 8' ceilings, AND since you can't hang clouds or an absorber, this means you will have a reflective surface on the floor AND the ceiling, which I submit, translates into COMBFILTERING/flutter echo!! This is why. Since you will have MULTIPLE mics somewhere between the floor and the ceiling, overheads being the closest to the ceiling, drum mics closest to the floor, and both surfaces are reflective, each of the mics will pic up TWO path differentials. This isn't even considering the walls.


Since the path of direct sounds is shorter from the drums to the mic, than the sound traveling to the floor and ceiling and then back to the mic there is a delay in the reflected sound. Especially with transients such as impact sounds. This delay creates comb filtering. If you have ONE surface totally reflective, such as the ceiling, this will result in your OVERHEAD mics, picking up not only the direct sound, but the delayed sound of the relection from the cieling, which is a short distance away. Then the lower mics will now pick up and even more delayed sound as the path is even longer. However, IF the floor is reflective too, I also submit that NOW, you will have another reflection, with an even greater path difference back to the lower mics, and then an even greater distance back to the overheads. This is MULTIPLE comb filtering. Add reflections from the walls....well, you can see where this is going.
And since you can't hang clouds or an absorber, VOILA!! :rolleyes: Actually, just the use of multiple mics will cause combfilltering as there is a path length differential to the different mics. Engineers fight this all the time. That is why I mentioned MIC PLACEMENT is important too. And if you can't monitor the sound while you play......well, what can I say? The sound in the room may sound good to your ears while you play...but that has nothing to do with the recorded sound when multiple mic recording.

Personally, IF you have a live floor, and no treatment on the ceiling, I would suggest that not only will your sound be colored, but you will have a very pronounced flutter echo between them also. That is why I suggested a rug, which you have already got, but for a different reason. The problem is this. You can't MONITOR the live sound in the room WHILE YOU PLAY. That is where people start having problems, cause they CAN"T HEAR THE DIFFERENCE !
This is why I suggested the use of a rug. I also ASSUMED :rolleyes:, this was a very small room, which makes for very pronounced comb filtering. Hence the use of absorbers adinfinitium in small rooms. Which translates into a very low RT-60(dead), which translates into.....yep, you got it...ELECTRONIC or PLUG-IN FX/REVERB!!!

But don't take my word for it. YOU are the only one who decides what you like. In that regard, I have two suggestions.
Listening to an A/B comparisons recorded under different conditions....ie. with a rug on tile, with a wood panel, and then with a rug on the wood panel.

First on the tile with a rug.
1. Have someone play the drums while someone else moves the mics around, WHILE you listen to the sound over the monitors in a different room. Only THEN will you be able to tell what you are really picking up on the mics. Now try recording a test track.

Now lay down a wod panel and place the drums.
2.1. Have someone play the drums while someone else moves the mics around, WHILE you listen to the sound over the monitors in a different room. Now record an adjacent track. Now A/B the tracks Only THEN will you be able to tell the difference. If you have problems now, then place the rug on the panel and try recording/comparing. You should be able to make a correct decision now.
Hope that clarifies my viewpoint.
fitZ :)
 
no, its tile tile. nice tile. hence protecting it from a drumkit with a rug. I would like to put panels on the ceiling..you think it would be better than the sides? it is not a small room, it is wide open on two walls...it does have 8' ceiling though....what pisses me off about hanging an absorber on the ceiling is that what if I want to move the drums around????
 
Well depending on how your gobo's are set up, use those to support the clouds. Thats what I do. I just lay my clouds spanned across my gobos once everythings in place.

Or..

How about you line your entire ceiling with velcro, and then "stick" the clouds wherever you need them? :cool:
 
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