Drum Click Track Vs. No Drum Click Track question

ez_willis said:
There's a common misconception about playing to a click. A click does not equate to a lack of groove or feel. It gives you a reference point to drop the beat on top of, right on, or on the back side of. It's the drumbers job to place that beat in the appropriate place, which they commonly screw up.
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I agree. There's nothing wrong with playing to click. If you're recording a good live band, then record it with no-click. If you're recording yourself and doing all the parts yourself, recording to a click is the only way to go. It makes everything so much easier. Don't be a groove-snob. If you need a click, use it.
 
ez_willis said:
I'm not a drummer, but I record my own drum tracks(it's easier than having a 'drummer' do it:) ), personally, I think it's way easier to record with a click, but it's how I learned to play.
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Dude, hate to ruin your self image, but you're a drumber now!
Not a bad one, either!
 
Most people that say the thing about click=sterile have no idea about drums, music production, groove or even rhythm...

I bet they can´t even realise that the music they love was recorded to a click (I´m talking about post 70´s commercial music).

Get over it. You may choose no to use it (ala Steve Jordan), BUT you HAVE to be able to use it... al least if you´re planning to make a living playing drums.

HTH :D
 
I'm not a drummer, but would it not make sense to start learning the drums in the first place to a click or some kind of audible meter. Playing the drums is an excercise in timekeeping. As such, how does a rookie drummer know if he can ever play in time if he has never practiced to a click?

When I practice any kind of guitar excercises, I always do it to a click, and always have. If I had the money to buy a drumkit and play them, I would start by learning to a click, firstly to improve my timing, secondly I wouldn't have any problems playing to a click if I had always learned to play with one.
 
legionserial said:
I'm not a drummer, but would it not make sense to start learning the drums in the first place to a click or some kind of audible meter. Playing the drums is an excercise in timekeeping. As such, how does a rookie drummer know if he can ever play in time if he has never practiced to a click?

When I practice any kind of guitar excercises, I always do it to a click, and always have. If I had the money to buy a drumkit and play them, I would start by learning to a click, firstly to improve my timing, secondly I wouldn't have any problems playing to a click if I had always learned to play with one.
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Most drummers would learn playing along to CDs etc so much the same as with click.. (unless they're playing along to the wrong CDs!!) Most drummers would have no problem with playing to click but like everything else they need to practice this BEFORE heading into the studio!
 
Farview said:
Also, a lot of times things like video screens and light systems are all programmed to run off of time code. The drummer is fed a click so that the show is in sync with the music.QUOTE]
I was in a band once upon a time and this is what we did. The drummer had a click in headphones and we flew in midi horn parts and such. The lights were midi controlled too. I'm not anti click at all. I just rarely find drummers who can cope with them so I stopped automaticly setting one up for bands coming in. I just let them know one is available if they'd like it. One in ten want it. Out of those, one in ten can play to it. I agree, it's very much a learned skill.
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It is a learned skill.

One thing that really helps is to create a click that doesn't use percussive elements that sound enough like the drummer's real drums to create confusion.

e.g., if you use a snare and hat for your click, or even a click that sounds like the initial attack of a snare, your drummer won't be able to tell whether his is the first or second hit in a flam of the click and himself (or herself, I suppose). It you get a click that is distinct from the drummer's kit and has a nice little groove to it, it helps a lot.

One of the best drummers I ever recorded wanted a shrill quarter note cowbell that cut through everything he was doing.
 
The biggest problem IS definately getting the click to cut through.. I know I like to record with 1 can half off so i can hear the acoustic drums, (latency screws up monitoring in the cans) and then it'sgets harder to pick out the click.. I go for the dink donk donk donk annoying focking click!
 
legionserial said:
I'm not a drummer, but would it not make sense to start learning the drums in the first place to a click or some kind of audible meter. Playing the drums is an excercise in timekeeping. As such, how does a rookie drummer know if he can ever play in time if he has never practiced to a click?
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It seemes to me that the number ONE job of the drummer before all else is to set the backbeat and set the tempo. They are, in some ways, kind of the conductor of the band.

If they can't keep a beat, either to a click or to something else, they can't even fulfill the main reason for which they are supposed to be there. Forget the performance; if they can't reasonably keep a beat (within normal human tolerances at least) and can't at least do fundamentals like hit a snare or a kick with consistant pressure, the rest of the "performance" is useless.

If they never learned to play to a click from an instructor (which is what an instructor will do if the student's internal clock sucks) and learned to play by themselves, then maybe learning to play to a click - either just to learn to play to one, or to at least practice to get their internal rhythm trained better so they don't need the click - is in order before going into a studio. Because it seems to me that a drummer that can't keep a simple beat is about as useful as a vocalist who can't sing on key.

G.
 
When my band went into pre-production with Andy Wallace producing, he said there's no way we will be going into a studio with the original drummer until he learns how to play to a click.

He gave us a choice: take a few months to get it figured out, or break the news to him that we'd be bringing in a studio guy for the sessions. We opted to take the time to step our game(his game, sort of, but the entire band benefited from it) up to a professional level. It sucked, for awhile, because it interferred with our pussy conquering time, but we managed to find a balance between the two, eventually. Then we got really fucking tight as a band.
 
Musicians have practiced to metronomes for hundreds of years. I believe 100% in using a click while practicing (as a band or by yourself), but NOT necessarily while performing a song.

Performance is for show, practice is preparation. If you're prepared, you should be fine!

It's always good to have it there for reference though.

A lot of beginner musicians like to lie to themselves about their abilities...Or ignore their faults! Clicks are scary because they'll expose just how imprecise a person plays and that's what's important, not necessarily following a click; precise time keeping.
 
Any drummer should be able to play to a click. I'm a lifelong guitar player, but I've done an occasional drum take. I'm a very lousy drummer, but find playing with a click to be absolutely trivial. It usually just takes a couple of practice runs to figure out which sections I'm rushing and where I'm dragging.

Years ago I played with a drummer with terrible rhythm, and he had to practice for months with a click to prepare for a session. This gave me the idea that playing to a click must be very hard. When I tried it myself, I realized that this guy just really sucked.

I've done one record with a really good drummer (who I still record with) and we intentionally did not use a click. Amazingly, I remember one song where we were able to copy and paste a vocal from the first chorus to the last and it dropped in fine!

I will say that drummers tend to be a little more adventurous when they're not tied to a click, so sometimes you miss out on some of that. But in general, the pros of using a click outweigh the cons.
 
I think a lot of drummers (actually all musicians) like to play at the edge of their talent level, or even a tad beyond it. crazy fast fills, etc. If they are pushing beyond their comfort zone, these things lag a bit, and the timing suffers. Probably if an average drummer were to play a straight rock beat with minimal fills they would have pretty good timing. But everybody's got to show off and try to be bonham or neil peart, and usually it screws up the take.

also, for the several drummers I've recorded recently, they all used a cowbell click, and nobody complained.
 
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