Doubling Guitars

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miroslav said:
Oh I agree...it's not going to sound as good as double tracking.

Though a lot of newbs hit the Internet and just want someone to TELL them what to do...rather than making their own choices/decisions.
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I'm not calling you a n00b, but you're relatively new here. The copy/paste/shift question gets asked at least once a week since I've been here. Of course people should try everything and decide for themselves. But fuck, let's put this one to bed. Double-tracking is better.
 
Fletcher said:
Due respect mate - this isn't [or at least shouldn't be] a race to "get things done".
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I agree, it is not a race to get things done.

But nor is it productive to spend hours exploring endless possibilities when there are more constructive things you can do with the time, specially when those possibilities can be found, from the experiences of others, to be unhelpful.

I agree that 'rules were meant to be broken', and I agree with experimentation and trying out things for yourself.

But . . . to me it's a bit like:

Tom: "Can I eat meat that's been left out in the sun for four days?"
Dick and Harry and everyone else says "Possibly, but the chances are high it will be rotten and you will get sick".
Tom: "Hmm, I don't know. Maybe I'll try it and see for myself."
 
Fletcher said:
Due respect mate - this isn't [or at least shouldn't be] a race to "get things done". It is quite common [at least in my world] when we're working on an album to spend a good 6 - 8 hours getting a rhythm guitar part tracked, and a good 4 - 6 hours getting the "double" of that track finished. At least in my world its not so much about "getting it done" but "getting it great".

In terms of taking a few hours to experiment - try things that have been posted here [including the "copy / paste / slide" thing] its probably a very good idea to try it - and determine for your own bad self why so many people advise against the technique. There are things that you can learn no matter what you're doing - and no matter who advises against it. Rules were made to be broken, but you have to know "why" you're breaking the rules and "why" it is a good [or bad] idea to break a rule at any given time.

The more experimentation you do, the more you learn, the more you know from direct experience rather than internet jibber jabber.

Peace.
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True Fletch - but the point I'm trying to make is that the person who asked the question, who isn't the OP, and the question isn't the original question - apparently hasn't tried double tracking and is asking theoretical questions about the copy method vs. double tracking and seeking to understand the difference.

That person should spend 10 minutes trying to double track and then he/she will understand the concept and be able to hear the results and compare, rather than trying to work it out from the internet jibber jabber...

I'm betting that person has spent a lot longer than that reading / questioning in this thread.

Whether such an exercise yields a "keeper" in terms of the actual project he/she is working on doesn't really matter. Try it and see is my point. Perhaps I should have been clearer... ;)

Proof of concept, as we call it in my business...
 
Greg_L said:
I'm not calling you a n00b, but you're relatively new here. The copy/paste/shift question gets asked at least once a week since I've been here. Of course people should try everything and decide for themselves. But fuck, let's put this one to bed. Double-tracking is better.
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I wasn't really just commenting on the double guitar question...I was speaking more generally about trying out stuff in the studio VS asking to be told what to do.

I do agree that the doubling guitars question is asked a lot...and the answers usually end up that double tracking sounds better than splitting...though you gotta admit, even though it's obvious to us why that is the case...I really do think a total recording newbie SHOULD try it anyway...both ways...and then compare/hear for himself. I just think it's more educational than to always just take the word of others, even if that word is spot on.

It's like when your parents told you the water was too cold for swimming...didn't you still have to go in and find out for yourself? :D

And there's NO danger in trying stuff in the studio (most times)...I mean, it's NOT like going in the cold ocean or eating bad meat even though you are told by wiser people not to. ;)

But I do know that for us guys who hang regularly on the forums...it does become a PITA reading/answering the same damn topics over and over for the weekly newbies who pop in and don't want to do any research on their own. :rolleyes:
 
When I first got into digital recording, I tried and tried to make copy/paste/shift work. It just has to work, right? How can it not? Well, it doesn't. If you put a gun to my head and forced me to use that "trick", I might do it to some vocals. Or I might just let you kill me.
 
Greg_L said:
If you put a gun to my head and forced me to use that "trick", I might do it to some vocals.
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Oh my god... You double track vocals too? Should that be another thread?

By crikey this thing has been thrashed all the way through by now hasn't it?


lou
 
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miroslav said:
And there's NO danger in trying stuff in the studio (most times)
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Most times there is no 'danger', I agree. And it is worth experimenting. In which case . . . that's what they should do.

Sometimes, though, there is danger. When you are working to a budget or to a deadline, for example, and need to get things done. Or, even if these pressures don;t exist, if you are the kind of person that likes to explore, experiment and tinker . . . you can tinker yourself in circles and not get anything done.

I note, though, that the OP wasn't considering the copy and paste possibilities, and was just asking about ways in which people double tracked (changing settings and stuff). The cut and paste option only reared its head halfway through the thread, and nicely hijacked it.
 
Greg_L said:
I don't copy/paste/shift anything.
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About the only thing I do that to with any regularity....is my Hammond organ track, and only when I record a single organ track. Sometimes I record multiple organ tracks...maybe doing the right hand (melody lines) as one track and the left hand (chords) as another...that way I can place/pan and process them separately (I've also used that approach on piano tracks at times)....
...but when I record just a single organ track, where all the organ playing is contained on that one track (this mostly applies to chords)...I'll split/shift/pan....and it actually works really well because of vibrato/chorus from the organ and the amount of shift/delay I use between the tracks.

I mentioned this technique once before in some similar thread. The trick that makes it really work is to take the second track and shift it only by HALF of the vibrato wave....so that where the vibrato is going UP on the first track, you place the second track so it's going DOWN in that spot. Now you pan them hard L/R, and you end up with a great Leslie vibe, because the vibrato now oscillates L/R.
If you collapse to mono, they still work...

Yeah...if you have a real Leslie, and you want to set up a pair of stereo room mics....etc...you can also get there, but I got no Leslie, and I don't care for most of the "rotary" FX boxes out there, so I use this split/shift technique.

Try it....it really works well on organ chord tracks that are rich with vibrato.
This is how to line up the two tracks:

..../\/\/\/\/\/\/\...
...../\/\/\/\/\/\/...

You can of course use some different delay shift between the tracks, but it's only when you get them in a centered, opposing UP/DOWN position and then pan them hard L/R do you get the real strong L/R vibrato throb going. It's almost like being in the room with a Leslie cab and feeling the rotor's effect in the room.
 
miroslav said:
Sometimes I record multiple organ tracks...maybe doing the right hand (melody lines) as one track and the left hand (chords) as another.
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I do this too - but because I'm a crap keyboard player! :D

Can't be good at everything...
 
I don't know fuck about recording so I'm most likely as wrong as I can be in my method, but I keep the same guitar tone, record a second take, pan them slightly apart from each other. Of course, I don't know fuck about recording.
 
Sirnothingness said:
I don't know fuck about recording so I'm most likely as wrong as I can be in my method, but I keep the same guitar tone, record a second take, pan them slightly apart from each other. Of course, I don't know fuck about recording.
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If you would have only had taught your clone to play guitar you would have it recorded in half the time SirN! :D
 
So like...if you stand in front of a mirror when recording...would that count as doubling? :D
 
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