double tracking phase problems

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kingofpain678
  • Start date Start date
RAMI said:
And once again, trying to be Greg. You really wish you weren't yourself, don;t you. That's a shame. :laughings:

Nah, no defensiveness here. Just watching a complete wind bag make a total fool of himself......again :D

I can see the vein in your forehead from here, so nice try on the trying to turn it around, it's pretty obvious who embarrassed themselves and is trying to dig themselves out of a hole. It's plain as day. :)
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Oh look who's back with some more retarded irrelevant shit to say!
What is your obsession with me being greg? why do you keep coming back here just to say some more retarded shit?
If you weren't so ass hurt you could shrug me off and just get on with your life. but that's not happening and you'll be back :)
 
Sonixx said:
The reason the two are out of phase is because they were never in phase. Two independent recordings have no phase coherence to begin with. Any phase coherence is totally happenstance.

The Wikipedia item that you referenced is not applicable for this example. It would be applicable for two mics on a single source because the resulting two tracks have a level of phase coherence.
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Type slower...after all, you're dealimg with someone who's amazed by fire. :eek:

(here comes the word-for-word Greg clone response) :laughings: :laughings:
 
Kingofpain678 said:
Oh look who's back with some more retarded irrelevant shit to say!
What is your obsession with me being greg? why do you keep coming back here just to say some more retarded shit?
If you weren't so ass hurt you could shrug me off and just get on with your life. but that's not happening and you'll be back :)
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You sound very angry. Therapy maybe?

You mean, what's with you being so obsessed with trying to be Greg???? Truth hurts, don't it??? Wipe your tears before you respond. You're soaking your keyboard, Sally. :D
 
The quick answer is: You don't know what the phase meter is telling you. If you pan the guitar tracks center, then you have mono. If it's mono, you can't have any phase differences because the same thing is coming out of both speakers. Any time there is a difference in the signal on the two sides, the meter will read it as a phase difference. It's not necessarily a problem, it's just what stereo is.
 
RAMI said:
You sound very angry. Therapy maybe?

You mean, what's with you being so obsessed with trying to be Greg???? Truth hurts, don't it??? Wipe your tears before you respond. You're soaking your keyboard, Sally. :D
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Oh, hey! Welcome back! I knew you couldn't resist.
And sure, you nailed it. You got me, I'm greg.
Now, let's hear something new from you cause you're starting to sound like a gay broken record.
 
Farview said:
The quick answer is: You don't know what the phase meter is telling you. If you pan the guitar tracks center, then you have mono. If it's mono, you can't have any phase differences because the same thing is coming out of both speakers. Any time there is a difference in the signal on the two sides, the meter will read it as a phase difference. It's not necessarily a problem, it's just what stereo is.
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Alright, that makes sense. So phase issues in mono could only come from the source ... such as two different mics on one speaker. But when using only one source, the only way there could be phase issues is in stereo and from separately recorded tracks.

Am I getting this down right?
 
Kingofpain678 said:
Hmmm... I suppose, I just don't understand why it would get better as I panned both of the tracks towards the center.
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There's nothing to suppose here. Two independent recordings of the type to which you're referring have no phase coherence, therefore cannot be in or out of phase with each other.

I'm guessing but probably the reason it gets better is the signals are summed resulting in a mono signal.
 
Kingofpain678 said:
Oh, hey! Welcome back! I knew you couldn't resist.
And sure, you nailed it. You got me, I'm greg.
Now, let's hear something new from you cause you're starting to sound like a gay broken record.
Click to expand...

Yes I'm back. And if I didn't come back, you'd say "Ha! I owned him!". Because it's the little "victories" in life that make you feel a little better than the complete angry loser that you are. I'll say something new when you stop trying to be somebody else. And a lame copy of that person at that. :D

Funny how some people attack first, and then play the victim when they realize they made a complete idiot of themselves.....again and again.......and again. Nice try, Sally.

OK, I'll leave you now, you're starting to sound pathetic. Wouldn't want you to blame me when you decide to slash your wrists, because your anger is obviously hiding a deep depression that must come from a very low self-esteem.

Get help. :)
 
RAMI said:
Yes I'm back. And if I didn't come back, you'd say "Ha! I owned him!". Because it's the little "victories" in life that make you feel a little better than the complete angry loser that you are. I'll say something new when you stop trying to be somebody else. And a lame copy of that person at that. :D

Funny how some people attack first, and then play the victim when they realize they made a complete idiot of themselves.....again and again.......and again. Nice try, Sally.

OK, I'll leave you now, you're starting to sound pathetic. Wouldn't want you to blame me when you decide to slash your wrists, because your anger is obviously hiding a deep depression that must come from a very low self-esteem.

Get help. :)
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Lol @ defending your honor on HR.com.

retard.
 
You mention a few times what the phase analyzer showed you with the guitars. But how did it actually sound to your ears ?
I don't want to enter into a war in cyberspace, but the questions that Mixit, RAMI and Ido1957 asked were important in being clear what you meant. When I saw "double tracked" and "out of phase" together, my eyebrows raised. I'd not heard of that before. They weren't being jerks.
 
OMG you are all acting like a bunch of fucking children. Now stop it or I'll turn this forum right around and take you all home, and there'll be no ice cream or cable TV for anyone.

Gerg Jr, there is no inherent change in phase coherence between the two signals. The meter is simply reflecting the fact that the wider you spread the two signals, the more differentiated the left and right channel become, and therefore the greater the apparent amplitude of phase differential in the phase display.

And phase issues exist between two sounds, not two channels. If you record two channels in mono, there will still be phase cancellations and reinforcements. The only difference is they will be reflected in the new shape of the single "phase-combined" signal. But they won't show up in the phase display, because that can only compare two physical channels or tracks.

G.
 
Farview said:
The quick answer is: You don't know what the phase meter is telling you. If you pan the guitar tracks center, then you have mono. If it's mono, you can't have any phase differences because the same thing is coming out of both speakers. Any time there is a difference in the signal on the two sides, the meter will read it as a phase difference. It's not necessarily a problem, it's just what stereo is.
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^^This.

Does it *sound* worse as you move the tracks farther from center? Or are you looking at meters? You should be listening rather than looking at meters. Double tracked parts *should* be "out of phase."
 
Kingofpain678 said:
Alright, that makes sense. So phase issues in mono could only come from the source ... such as two different mics on one speaker. But when using only one source, the only way there could be phase issues is in stereo and from separately recorded tracks.

Am I getting this down right?
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You are reading too much into it. The phase meter only tells you about the difference between the left and right channel. If everything is panned to the center, there is no difference between the channels. If you have more than one thing and they are panned to different places, that meter will always show something going on. It could be a guitar on one side and a piano on another, it would show something. That's just what it does.

What type of phase meter are you using? There is one that looks like an oscilloscope with a bunch of squiggles and there is another that is just a bar that has something going back and fourth across the scale.

With the oscilloscope one, as long as the squiggles are relatively circular, you are fine. If something were really out of phase, the pattern would be at a 45 degree angle.
 
This almost sounds like a speaker alignment problem. Pan them and then move your head around and see if they fall back in phase.
 
sockswithshoes said:
This almost sounds like a speaker alignment problem. Pan them and then move your head around and see if they fall back in phase.
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He doesn't actually have a phase problem, he is just confused about what his phase meter is telling him.
 
Farview said:
He doesn't actually have a phase problem, he is just confused about what his phase meter is telling him.
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That's exactly right. The problem in a nutshell is that phase meters show the difference between the two *channels or tracks* of left and right.

But the closer one pulls a track towards the center, the less of a percentage of difference between the two channels because the more of what's in the right channel is also in the left channel. That doesn't mean that the git 1 is any more in phase with git 2, it just means that there's more of git 1 on the get 2 side (and vice versa).

By the time one has a mono signal, the left and the right sides are identical, therefore no phase issues reported on the meter. But the exact same phase relationship between git 1 and get 2 is there, it's just that now the meter can't tell that.

G.
 
Avoiding all the name calling for a minute...

If you're hearing (as opposed to seeing on a phase analyser) something that's not right when you centre pan two separate takes of the same thing, as opposed to when you hard left/right them - then perhaps you're getting some form of comb filtering (I think it's called...) occurring...

I've heard similar things myself - played the same thing twice - hard left/right sounds fine, plonk them together in the centre and not so good because the two tracks are interfering with each other.

It's when I'm most accurately playing the same thing at the same time that it's occurred... so when I'm a bit out, not such a problem.

Try bumping one of your tracks forward by some milliseconds to see if it makes a difference...

If you're seeing a problem and not hearing one, then there probably is not problem at all and Southside has provided the answer

Cheers
 
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