dont get lost in technicalities

[adclark]

Very interesting topic. I've been making decent sounding mixes (in my opinion) for quite a while. I am currently learning little by little about technical sound details. But at the same time, I could not tell you the proper compression decay/ratio , etc... I just tweak until I get a sound I like. I'll do some common general things (like roll off 40db on low end) to get a general a general canvas to work on. But besides that I try to get the best sound possible with the least amount of eQ and effects. I try to only use EQ as a subtraction device rather than an addition device. I try to bring life to my music through good recording and panning techniques (which is quite difficult in a standard bedroom with low end equipment). But, I feel until I get more cash for better equipment and a better recording environment, I will do the best I can with what I've got. A good stereo landscape can do wonders for a track.

 

[warble]

Good thread - at least the vast majority of it. I've nothing else to add except that I'm reminded that I've a ways to go learning this craft, and I'll keep my ears open to not only what I might be mixing, but to those around me that just might know more than I do.

 

[mixmkr]

fuck doing things by the book all the time. if i were in a rock band and i went to a studio and the engineer made us sound like every other rock band on the radio at the time - i would be pissed.
my opinion was doomed the moment blue bear made his post.

I hope you don't take this attitude to church with you, nor let it continue outside of church. Nice mouth too. Someone with that attitude mixing my praise and worship team would be instantly led out the door by their ear.

 

[chessrock]

Well, I suppose if your aim is to make something that, sonically-speaking, is extremely low-fi and trashy-sounding, then it would certainly be to one's advantage to have very modest gear to work with. So in this instance, a little really does go a long way.

you have got to be one of the most close minded engineers i have ever come in contact with. if you would just listen to his stuff you'd discover that he is brilliant.

I have listened to his stuff, and yes, I do agree it has some artistic merit.

And part of that artistic merit is the whole low-fi production thing, which sounds like it was intentional, and used to good effect. Kinda' like the White Stripes, or Helter Skelter. The bad production is part of the vibe. And all you have to do is listen to it to hear it. The production is bad, okay. Intentionally so, I'm guessing, but that's the sound. Like modern art.

I think where our disconnect is happening is that ... you actually think it's good production, so you're missing his point, entirely. His stuff ... it's not meant to be held out as an example of what good production is, or of "getting the most out of modest equipment." That's missing the point entirely. The aim was to put something out there that sounds kind of ugly, and he/they did a great job of it. Because it does, indeed, sound like an utter catastrophe.

if i were in a rock band and i went to a studio and the engineer made us sound like every other rock band on the radio at the time - i would be pissed.

If I were your engineer ...

And your band sounded just like every other rock band on the radio ...

And I made you sound just like every other rock band on the radio ...

Then I merely made you sound like you.

 

[TexRoadkill]

I can remember being a knowitall snot nosed kid doing sound and video work for a church so, Kasey, I do know where you're coming from and you're probably wrong, lol.

The Kolympia stuff is cool from a performance and arrangement standpoint but a real engineer and studio would have made it sound that much better.

It's common for new engineers to take the approach of wanting to twist every knob on the board in the spirit of experimentation. That's isn't so much artistic expression as it is technical curiosity. Nothing wrong with that but don't get a big head about "engineering cliches" until you actually know most of them. Tweaking the EQ to extreme levels is the biggest engineering cliche there is. Too much low end is another.

Once you truly understand what is involved in making things sound good you won't have to sit and tweak knobs so much. The real important choices are made and techniques applied before the sound even hits the mic.

It's pretty much like you're driving donuts in the church parking lot in your mom's minivan because you are "experimenting" with driving techniques. The capabilities of the minivan and the layout of the parking lot are already well known areas and you're really just screwing around.

 

[Kasey]

ok, to all of you, i apolagize. My initial statement was poorly worded and my later cases only made my standpoint appear more severe because i was frustrated. My point was merely to say that the most important part of being an engineer is to listen, to have a good ear. without listening all the knowledge in the world isnt going to help. The two guys i was refering to were making extreme changes to the mix without even listening to it... correct me if i'm wrong but that doesnt sound like a good thing to do.
I agree that experimentation on the stage is not appropriate (unless its my show). I apolagize if i made a statement that made me sound as if i think that is smart in typical circumstances. I do still beleive that live sound is an art, so if you want to yell at me there then go for it. I beleive it is an art to maximize the emotional impact of the song that the band is playing, no matter what the setting. If that involves adding a little more bass to the mix than usual or less compression than usual, or anything thats not the "normal" way of doing things, then so be it. I really didnt mean for any of this to be a big deal, or even something controversial. I know that these two guys have had way more experience than me. I know that they know more than me. I know that they are far better sound engineers than I am. Do I think that are very good at listening to a song and determining what should be done to maximize the emotional impact? No, not really, but that is merely my opinion. I think you should listen to a mix before making changes to a mix, but like i said i'm sure they know more than me. So I apolagize, my statements were extreme.

 

[Kasey]

I hope you don't take this attitude to church with you, nor let it continue outside of church. Nice mouth too. Someone with that attitude mixing my praise and worship team would be instantly led out the door by their ear.

i have anger problems. i work it out with my youth pastor. my apolagies.

 

[travelin travis]

jumped the gun a bit eh? at least you're passionate about what really matters, the emotional content of a song. it's pretty easy to lose sight of that when you have a bunch of fancey gadgets to play around with. i would'nt worry one bit about those two guys with more experience, knowledge, etc. usually when someone is new to something they tend to have fresh ideas. some people embrace this stuff and some let it pass by.

i believe that the variety and honesty of indie music is going to bring down the industry. i can dream anyway.

 

[RAMI]

The two guys i was refering to were making extreme changes to the mix without even listening to it... correct me if i'm wrong but that doesnt sound like a good thing to do.

Acually, it seems like YOU were making the extreme changes...They just had to make what SEEMED like extreme changes to get it back to normal.

But your apology is accepted.

 

[Kasey]

Acually, it seems like YOU were making the extreme changes...They just had to make what SEEMED like extreme changes to get it back to normal.

But your apology is accepted.

shouldnt you at least listen to the mix before and during making those changes? doesnt make sense to me.

 

[northsiderap]

Fresh Idea Compromise

Fresh ideas are great. *Usually* they have to be molded into something solid by a more experienced person.

That doesn't mean that the more experienced person has to be a condescending butt-wipe.